Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

05/07/2011 10:00 AM House ENERGY


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10:10:17 AM Start
10:11:52 AM Review of Energy Projects
05:47:55 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Joint with House RES
+ Review of Energy Projects in CSSB 46 Version T, TELECONFERENCED
Section 4, p. 98, line 1 through p. 101, line 27
- Hydroelectric Projects
                   REVIEW OF ENERGY PROJECTS                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
[Contains discussion of SB 46.]                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:12:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT announced  that the only order  of business would                                                               
be a review  of energy projects in CSSB 46  Version T, Section 4,                                                               
page  98, line  1,  through page  101, line  27:   Alaska  Energy                                                               
Authority  requests   submitted  by   the  administration.     He                                                               
explained the review would  exclude weatherization, in-state gas,                                                               
and renewable energy grant funds.   A description of each project                                                               
would  include answers  to 10  questions previously  submitted to                                                               
the witnesses,  in addition to:   an indication of  local support                                                               
for the  project; sources of  financial support outside  of state                                                               
funding; the end-cost  to ratepayers for power; the  scope of the                                                               
vetting process; challenges of "the 50 percent requirement."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:14:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTINE  KLEIN,  Executive  Vice President  &  Chief  Operating                                                               
Officer,  Calista   Corporation,  said  the  Calista   Region  in                                                               
Southwest  Alaska  is served  by  the  Nuvista Light  &  Electric                                                               
Cooperative (Nuvista).   The Nuvista hydroelectric  (hydro) power                                                               
project would  be the first hydro  project in this region  of the                                                               
state and  - at a  cost of $17.6 million  - would serve  a 59,000                                                               
square  mile area  encompassing 56  villages, many  of which  are                                                               
located  along  the  Yukon  and  Kuskokwim  Rivers,  and  with  a                                                               
population  of nearly  31,000 residents.   Ms.  Klein noted  that                                                               
this  region is  the poorest  in the  state and  has a  dispersed                                                               
population  with  a  very   remote  and  limited  infrastructure.                                                               
Currently, the  cost of power  in this  region is the  highest in                                                               
the U.S.   Nuvista  was established  in 1995 and  its goal  is to                                                               
deliver  and reduce  electrical cost  to residents,  and to  find                                                               
solutions to the high cost  of energy.  Nuvista's members include                                                               
the region's major stakeholders; in  fact, its board of directors                                                               
represents  the major  energy users  in  the region  such as  the                                                               
Association  of  Village  Council Presidents  (AVCP),  the  Yukon                                                               
Kuskokwim  Health Corporation,  AVCP Regional  Housing Authority,                                                               
Alaska Village Electric Cooperative;  Chaninik Wind Group; Middle                                                               
Kuskokwim Electric  Coop.; Lower Yukon  Representative Electrical                                                               
Coop.; Calista Regional  Corporation.  The project  is the result                                                               
of many  groups working together to  find a solution to  the cost                                                               
of energy, and to improve the economy of the region.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:17:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN turned attention to  page 1 of her written presentation                                                               
provided in  the committee packet.   Chart I titled,  "Y-K Region                                                               
Energy  Situation," indicated  that  diesel is  the primary  fuel                                                               
used  for home  heating and  electrical generation,  and it  sold                                                               
last year  at prices  ranging from $6.14-$9.50  per gallon.   Ms.                                                               
Klein pointed  out that because  the fuel is purchased  by barge,                                                               
the   prices  are   unchanged  until   the   fuel  is   consumed;                                                               
furthermore,  Nuvista expects  the price  to increase  next year.                                                               
The chart  also indicated:  the  amount of family income  used to                                                               
pay for  heating has risen from  50 percent to 75  percent; there                                                               
are over 40 independent  diesel generators generating electricity                                                               
in the  region; conservation  measures are  routine; the  cost of                                                               
electricity per kilowatt hour (kWh)  is $0.58-$1.05.  Because the                                                               
cost of fuel  oil is twice that of Anchorage  and Bethel, and the                                                               
cost of  electricity is  three to five  times that  of Anchorage,                                                               
the Power  Cost Equalization (PCE)  program is vital  to survival                                                               
in the villages.   Ms. Klein provided  historical data indicating                                                               
that beginning in  1975, 21 engineering reports  and studies have                                                               
been conducted in the Bethel  area, and since 2006, $2.28 million                                                               
has  been  spent  by  AEA,   the  Denali  Commission,  and  other                                                               
agencies, and  $650,000 has been  spent by Nuvista in  the search                                                               
for solutions.   These studies reveal that  the electrical demand                                                               
for Bethel  and the surrounding  sub-region is expected to  be 65                                                               
megawatts (MW)  by 2020,  which is an  increase from  the current                                                               
demand of  14 MW.   In addition,  the studies indicate  that coal                                                               
and hydro  have high potential  for electrical generation  in the                                                               
region.   She called  attention to  the graph  on page  2 titled,                                                               
"II.   Electrical  Cost Projections  2002," that  illustrated the                                                               
current cost of electricity is  much higher than was predicted in                                                               
2002.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:22:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  continued to Nuvista's region-wide  alternative energy                                                               
plan that  determined that because  the area is immense  and very                                                               
diverse in  the population of  the villages and  their locations,                                                               
there  is no  one  solution for  the region.    For example,  the                                                               
coastal villages have wind energy  to augment their energy needs,                                                               
but wind  is not  a total  solution; in  fact, nine  villages are                                                               
using wind  turbines and  saving 140,000  gallons of  diesel fuel                                                               
per year.  Therefore, Nuvista is  focusing on the energy needs of                                                               
the  Bethel sub-region  at this  time  because it  holds over  50                                                               
percent of the population and  energy demand, and is experiencing                                                               
the  greatest  growth.    The  Bethel  sub-region  also  lacks  a                                                               
transmission system, and the illustration  on page 2 titled, "II.                                                               
Transmission  System Needed,"  proposed a  sequenced transmission                                                               
grid  build-out  beginning at  Bethel,  which  was identified  as                                                               
"Group 1  Villages."  On  page 4 a  table titled, "II.   Previous                                                               
Alternatives  Considered,"   listed  how  residents   feel  about                                                               
different types of technologies:   residents are comfortable with                                                               
diesel; geothermal  is preferred but  is unlikely; wind  power is                                                               
preferred but  is limited  by location  and production;  hydro is                                                               
preferred  but  has a  high  construction  cost; coal  is  feared                                                               
because of health risks; nuclear  power is troublesome in Alaska.                                                               
Nuvista reviewed the top three  alternatives to meet large-scale,                                                               
long-term demand:   wind turbines, a coal power  plant, and hydro                                                               
power.   Ms. Klein advised  that wind  power can be  variable and                                                               
does not  meet the entire  demand.   Although a coal  power plant                                                               
was found to  be very feasible and would  provide the lowest-cost                                                               
electrical  energy,  this  system   was  not  acceptable  to  the                                                               
community.   However, 12 hydro  sites were determined  viable and                                                               
that  the  proposed  Bethel  grid would  support  a  majority  of                                                               
villages  in  its  area,  thus the  hydro  option  was  seriously                                                               
pursued.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:29:18 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN related that a feasibility report commenced in 2009-                                                                  
2010  through a  grant  from  AEA and  determined  the four  most                                                               
viable  options for  a hydro  site: Chikuminuk  Lake Allen  River                                                               
Outfall;  Kisaralik  River  Upper Falls;  Kisaralik  River  Lower                                                               
Falls;  Kisaralik  River Golden  Gate  Falls.   She  referred  to                                                               
several engineering reports that  recommended proceeding with the                                                               
Federal Energy  Regulatory Commission (FERC) permitting  of sites                                                               
on the  Kisaralik River.   However, in 2010, MWH  engineers found                                                               
the best  option to be the  site at Chikuminuk Lake.   Chikuminuk                                                               
Lake is 118 miles from Bethel,  has a generating capacity of 13.4                                                               
MW,  and is  a year  around source  of power.   Importantly,  the                                                               
Chikuminuk  Lake site  does not  have anadromous  fish as  do the                                                               
Kisaralik River  sites, which  also have  historical significance                                                               
and can only  provide power on a seasonal basis.   She noted that                                                               
transmission lines  are included in  the cost estimate  of $391.7                                                               
million.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:34:29 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  said that the  project has  been well received  by the                                                               
public and all 56 villages are  in support of the Chikuminuk Lake                                                               
option.  As  directed by AEA's standard process, Phase  II of the                                                               
project  is   a  detailed  feasibility  assessment   and  initial                                                               
engineering designs.   She called attention to a chart  on page 6                                                               
titled,  "IV.     Preferred   Alternative,"  that   compared  the                                                               
construction cost, design cost,  total project cost, estimated 20                                                               
year cost/kilowatt  hour (kWh), and  demand capacity of  the four                                                               
sites.   Total construction costs -  including transmission lines                                                               
- for  each project  are between $350  million and  $500 million.                                                               
To  compare   projects  and  determine   whether  a   project  is                                                               
economical, AEA uses  diesel models with the cost of  oil at $25-                                                               
$30 per barrel  - which is very  low - and the  net present value                                                               
over 20  years for the  Chikuminuk option would be  $554 million,                                                               
and in 2022 it would be  $36.6 million.  Ms. Klein explained that                                                               
the  capital investment  of the  project equates  to $17,262  per                                                               
capita, which is  similar to that of the Railbelt  at $16,200 per                                                               
capita.  Of the four options,  the Chikuminuk site has the lowest                                                               
non-diesel net present  value.  She noted  the reconnaissance and                                                               
feasibility phase of the project  is completed and the public and                                                               
the  Nuvista  board  of  directors  have  made  the  decision  to                                                               
proceed.   Next, the  Nuvista board will  hire a  project manager                                                               
and  begin  the preliminary  application  for  the FERC  license.                                                               
Also, the  AEA Project Phase  II process of  detailed feasibility                                                               
and design  will begin.   She  called attention  to the  chart on                                                               
page  7 of  the document  in  the committee  packet titled,  "IV.                                                               
Next  Steps: Capital  Request," which  listed the  specific tasks                                                               
and their costs  that itemize the capital request.   Step "1a" is                                                               
the   detailed   feasibility   work,  geotechnical   work,   FERC                                                               
licensing,  field   surveying,  and  gathering   the  preliminary                                                               
financial options at  a cost of $5.88 million.   Step "1b" is the                                                               
preliminary  engineering design,  site field  investigations, and                                                               
specifications at a cost of $11.75  million.  If the project were                                                               
begun today,  electricity will be  available in 2022, as  long as                                                               
the project is  sequenced; in fact, the  abovementioned tasks are                                                               
combined  into one  field season  to save  time and  money.   Ms.                                                               
Klein  cautioned  that   the  legislative  appropriation  process                                                               
dictates  that "money  is not  accessible until  the middle  of a                                                               
construction season which makes it  a little difficult to proceed                                                               
ahead effectively."   She concluded  that the capital  request by                                                               
Nuvista  to   complete  the  detailed  feasibility   report,  the                                                               
remaining field  investigations, hydrologic  monitoring, surveys,                                                               
stream   gauging,   permitting,   and   engineering   plans,   is                                                               
$17,630,000,  an  amount which  is  "well  in  line" with  the  4                                                               
percent  commonly accepted  for  a final  feasibility and  design                                                               
effort.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  stated his support for  hydropower and asked                                                               
if there is support from the administration.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN said the project has been reviewed by AEA.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:45:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked whether  the  cost  of the  entire                                                               
build out system of transmission lines  to all six of the village                                                               
groups is included.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN said she was unsure.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:45:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked for  more details on  the financing                                                               
arrangements  with  the U.S.  Department  of  Interior (DOI)  and                                                               
bonds for rights of way.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KLEIN answered  that  at this  time she  did  not know  what                                                               
agencies would provide funding;  however, Calista Corporation has                                                               
briefed federal  agencies on the project.   In fact, there  are a                                                               
number  of options  at  future stages  for  funding through  DOI,                                                               
Bureau of  Indian Affairs  (BIA), and  Bureau of  Land Management                                                               
(BLM) due  to the  socioeconomic and/or  cultural history  of the                                                               
region.    In addition,  support  from  the Alaska  Congressional                                                               
delegation has been solicited.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:48:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER further  asked about  U.S. Department  of                                                               
Energy (DOE) bonds for construction funds.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN advised financial arrangements  must wait for the final                                                               
feasibility  report; however,  she  is researching  a mixture  of                                                               
funding  sources  such  as grants  and  very  low-interest  loans                                                               
through  the   Department  of  Commerce,  Community   &  Economic                                                               
Development,  Alaska  Industrial   Development  &  Export  Agency                                                               
(AIDEA) and the DOE Tribal Energy program.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:49:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT asked  how much money the project  will need from                                                               
the state in grants and investment.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN restated that is unknown at this time.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:50:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE asked  for the  combined baseload  of all  of the                                                               
villages.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN said she was unsure.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:52:13 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE observed  the project seems expensive  in terms of                                                               
dollars  per MW:   $34  million-$35  million dollars  per MW,  as                                                               
compared to  the Susitna dam  project which is projected  to cost                                                               
$3 million  per MW.   Because the villages are  widely dispersed,                                                               
interconnection may  be considerably  greater than  estimated; in                                                               
fact,  he doubted  if  the  cost would  be  under  $1 billion  to                                                               
connect the villages as planned.   Representative Feige asked why                                                               
Calista did  not partner  with the proposed  gold mine  at Donlin                                                               
Creek, which  would be  a large electrical  consumer, to  build a                                                               
power plant in Bethel.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN advised the "coal  options" were significantly explored                                                               
in  2002  and 2004.    The  Donlin Creek  mine  has  been in  the                                                               
exploration  mode for  over  16 years  and  inquiries by  Calista                                                               
Corporation  found that  delays  with the  mine  were holding  up                                                               
energy  plans  for the  region  and  projects in  some  villages.                                                               
Furthermore, coal  was dismissed  by the  population.   She added                                                               
that the  permitting process  for the mine  would take  years and                                                               
making the mine a utility cooperative would affect its permit.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:55:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  opined the mine would  be a customer for  a coal-                                                               
fired power plant,  which over a period of 30  years, would pay a                                                               
significant portion  of the cost of  a power plant in  Bethel, in                                                               
addition to saving hundreds of miles of transmission lines.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN pointed  out that the Donlin Creek  mine could purchase                                                               
power  from  this project  or  from  a  coal  power plant.    She                                                               
restated  that the  community  of Bethel  studied  the option  of                                                               
building a  coal power plant and  "said 'no,' so it's  been taken                                                               
off the table."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:57:00 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FOSTER called  attention  to  the Chikuminuk  project's                                                               
estimated 20 year cost per  kWh of $0.58-$0.70, and asked whether                                                               
that  projection is  inclusive of  transmission line  maintenance                                                               
and operation (O&M).                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KLEIN  said  the  projection   includes  only  the  cost  of                                                               
construction;  however, operation  and maintenance  of hydropower                                                               
is very low  when compared to diesel.  She  opined the projection                                                               
is very  conservative in that  she expects an increase  of demand                                                               
after heating plants are converted from diesel to electric.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FOSTER  observed  the   demand  in  Western  Alaska  is                                                               
growing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:59:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON  ascertained  the  Bethel  community's                                                               
concern about coal was related to health issues.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN answered  yes and advised that public  meetings in 2004                                                               
stopped  the  project,  but  she  was  unclear  about  the  exact                                                               
reasons.   In further response  to Representative P.  Wilson, she                                                               
said  the  plant  proposed  using   imported  coal  from  British                                                               
Columbia.  Other  potential mines in the region are  the Niak and                                                               
the Platinum.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:03:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  assumed  the  life of  the  project  is                                                               
beyond 20  years, and after  the pay-off the cost  of electricity                                                               
goes down.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  said he  was correct.   The  life-cycle of  most hydro                                                               
projects is typically 50 years, and  it is not uncommon to exceed                                                               
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:04:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN asked what  type of generating plant will                                                               
be built.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  explained that the  20-mile long lake would  be dammed                                                               
by  a  100-  to  160-foot-high  dam  with  a  91-foot  head,  and                                                               
consisting  of  a  rock-fill, concrete-face  dam  structure  with                                                               
penstock.   In further response  to Representative  Petersen, she                                                               
said there are no known anadromous fish in the lake.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:06:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK was  pleased that the project  will help meet                                                               
the  state's  energy policy  of  50  percent renewable  by  2025.                                                               
Hydropower   is  cost   effective   and  maintenance-free   after                                                               
construction  costs and  loans  are paid  off,  and low-cost  and                                                               
reliable energy  spurs economic development.   He asked  when the                                                               
most recent survey of residents' opinions was conducted.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN answered that the most  recent public meeting on all of                                                               
the  options  was March  2011,  in  Bethel.   The  findings  were                                                               
reviewed by about 150 people  from throughout the region, and the                                                               
Chikuminuk Lake Hydropower option was chosen.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:10:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  surmised  the decision  was  determined  by                                                               
public hearings, not a mail or phone survey.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN said he was correct.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:11:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  asked  whether   there  will  be  excess  power                                                               
available for other communities such as Dillingham.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  acknowledged that  this site has  the potential  to be                                                               
significantly expanded.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:12:37 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON   recalled  that  coal-fired  plants   have  had                                                               
problems with  permitting in Alaska  and are being phased  out in                                                               
the Lower  48.   He compared the  cost of $3  million per  mWh at                                                               
Susitna  displacing $0.06  avoided cost  power, with  $30 million                                                               
per mWh  at Chikuminuk displacing  $0.80 avoided cost  power, and                                                               
opined Chikuminuk  is more  cost efficient  than Susitna  in that                                                               
aspect.    He  cautioned  against  not  "look[ing]  at  the  full                                                               
equation  of what  we are  getting away  from, and  that is  very                                                               
expensive  power ...."  Co-Chair  Seaton  expressed his  support,                                                               
although more information  in needed on the use of  this power by                                                               
villages, transmission,  how many  villages will benefit,  and on                                                               
the generation of constant baseload power.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:15:29 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  reviewed some of the  benefits of the project  such as                                                               
the displacement  of 10 million  gallons of diesel per  year, the                                                               
reduced  carbon  footprint,  the  stability  of  hydropower,  the                                                               
savings to  PCE, the low O&M  costs, the electrical support  to a                                                               
minimum of  14 villages as indicated  on the map provided  in the                                                               
committee packet, and the potential  to expand electrical support                                                               
to other villages throughout the region.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER asked for the population of the Calista Region.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:17:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN estimated between 21,000-24,000  residents.  In further                                                               
response  to   Co-Chair  Foster,  she  estimated   148  miles  of                                                               
transmission  lines would  connect  all of  the  villages in  the                                                               
region.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:18:41 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER then  asked for a side-by-side  comparison of the                                                               
basic  information  for Susitna  Hydro  and  the Chikuminuk  Lake                                                               
project, especially  regarding a  financing plan and  final costs                                                               
to rate-payers.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:19:41 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked for the  distance between the proposed                                                               
Donlin Creek mine and the project.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  answered that Donlin  Creek is in the  upper Kuskokwim                                                               
River area which may  not be a part of this  project due to river                                                               
crossings.   In  further  response to  Representative Munoz,  she                                                               
said  other large  scale customers  for power  generated by  this                                                               
proposal  would be  the  school district,  two  fish plants,  the                                                               
airports, and other commercial enterprises.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:21:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ stressed  the  importance  of working  with                                                               
potential  large-scale  commercial  customers;  for  example,  in                                                               
Juneau the  Hecla Greens Creek  Mining Company (HGCMC)  agreed to                                                               
purchase  surplus  power from  Alaska  Electric  Light and  Power                                                               
(AEL&P) which  enabled AEL&P to pay  off the bonds from  the Lake                                                               
Dorothy   Hydroelectric  Facility.     She   urged  Ms.   Klein's                                                               
organization to "reach  out to Donlin Creek  and other commercial                                                               
entities."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN  said she was very  familiar with the operation  of the                                                               
proponents of  the Donlin Creek mine.   She pointed out  that the                                                               
major  stakeholders  in  the  area, such  as  the  hospital,  are                                                               
represented on the Nuvista board of directors.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:23:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ  asked what type  of power plan  is proposed                                                               
for the Donlin Creek mine.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KLEIN explained  the project  is looking  at a  gas pipeline                                                               
because of  the tremendous  amount of power  needed.   In further                                                               
response to  Representative Munoz, she  opined the demand  from a                                                               
mine of  that size  would exceed the  capacity of  the Chikuminuk                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ further  encouraged Ms.  Klein to  "look at                                                               
that opportunity,"  as "this would  be a great ...  common effort                                                               
and opportunity to benefit both organizations."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN acknowledged the hydro project is expandable.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:24:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  verified  that   the  Nuvista  board  of                                                               
directors was unanimous  in its choice of the project.   He asked                                                               
how the failure to secure AEA funding will affect the project.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KLEIN  acknowledged  that  lack  of  funding  would  have  a                                                               
tremendous  impact.    In   further  response  to  Representative                                                               
Saddler, she said that other  energy projects proposed by Nuvista                                                               
throughout  the  region  have  a lower  priority  but  are  being                                                               
studied.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:27:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked whether  any state park  land would                                                               
be affected by the project.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN stated  that the Calista Region  is entirely surrounded                                                               
by federal and  state park land.  The Chikuminuk  site is located                                                               
in Wood  Tikchik State  Wilderness Park  and the  Kisaralik sites                                                               
are located in the Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:27:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  supported  working  with the  proposed                                                               
mine.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KLEIN  estimated that  the  proposed  development needs  200                                                               
megawatts,  which is  three to  four  times the  capacity of  the                                                               
project.   Technologically, it  is possible  to connect  with the                                                               
system at any time.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:30:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON  asked  whether the  proposed  dam  is                                                               
designed to provide power for all six village groups.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLEIN explained that the  power capabilities are based on the                                                               
flow of  water and the  number of generators; the  initial design                                                               
will  call   for  sufficient   "slots"  so   appropriately  sized                                                               
generators can be added in future years.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:30:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JOHN   DUHAMEL,  Executive   Engineer,  Copper   Valley  Electric                                                               
Association  (CVEA), said  his responsibilities  as an  executive                                                               
engineer at CVEA include environmental  and regulatory issues and                                                               
he is  the program manager  for the Allison Creek  Hydro Project.                                                               
Copper Valley  Electric Association (CVEA) has  3,700 members and                                                               
operates  an  isolated  grid  independent  of  the  Railbelt  and                                                               
without the benefit of PCE.   At CVEA, power is generated by four                                                               
power plants, three  generating power by burning  fossil fuel and                                                               
one hydroelectric facility.   The CVEA's vision is  to reduce its                                                               
dependence  on fossil  fuel in  order to  stabilize power  rates.                                                               
Mr. Duhamel pointed out that CVEA  began its study of the Allison                                                               
Creek  project in  2007,  and  is prepared  to  file its  license                                                               
application  to  FERC in  August.    He described  three  earlier                                                               
iterations  of  the project  and  their  shortcomings.   After  a                                                               
reevaluation  of  the  Allison  Lake Basin,  the  CVEA  board  of                                                               
directors  chose Alternative  4-Run of  the River  (ROR), as  the                                                               
best  alternative.   This project  locates a  diversion structure                                                               
away  from the  mouth of  Allison  Lake that  "splits the  water"                                                               
between Allison Creek  and a 42-inch penstock  which continues to                                                               
the powerhouse.  There is no need  for a road, but only an access                                                               
trail  for  the  construction  of  the  penstock.    This  design                                                               
includes two 3.25  MW turbines for a combined  peak production of                                                               
6.5 MW.   Mr. Duhamel related that many risks  were eliminated or                                                               
reduced by  moving to the  Alternative 4 option, such  as seepage                                                               
and  liquefaction; access  issues; avalanche  risk; environmental                                                               
impacts  to fish  and the  Valdez  Marine Terminal;  furthermore,                                                               
operational and project costs were  reduced.  He provided further                                                               
comparisons between  Alternative 3C  and Alternative 4  and noted                                                               
the cost of Alternative 4 is $39  million with a cost of power of                                                               
21.3 cents  per kWh.  He  pointed out that CVEA  will have excess                                                               
power  in  the summer  and  if  additional summer  industry  were                                                               
found, the rate would drop to 14.6 cents per kWh.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:42:19 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUHAMEL  called attention  to  a  chart  on page  5  titled,                                                               
"Allison Creek is Green-Fuel  Savings," which illustrated savings                                                               
to members  of $1.163 million  per year when  fuel oil is  $4 per                                                               
gallon.   Regarding the  financing of  the project,  he explained                                                               
that  the project  analysis  is  based on  borrowing  funds at  7                                                               
percent interest  with 100 percent commercial  financing; every 1                                                               
percent drop  in the interest rate  reduces the cost of  power by                                                               
1.7 cents  per kWh, and every  $1 million in grant  funds reduces                                                               
the cost of power  by 0.5 cents per kWh.   He provided two graphs                                                               
showing that  power from  Allison Creek would  reduce the  use of                                                               
diesel from 23 percent to 11 percent.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:45:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUHAMEL  addressed  the first  written  question  previously                                                               
submitted  by  the committee  and  stated  that the  project  has                                                               
received a tremendous amount of  support from the local community                                                               
as shown by letters of  support provided in the committee packet.                                                               
In  addition,  400 members  attended  CVEA's  annual meeting  and                                                               
responded to Alternative 4 with  positive comments.  In answer to                                                               
the  second  question,  he  responded  that  a  bank  cooperative                                                               
indicated that  CVEA has  the capacity to  borrow 100  percent of                                                               
the financing; however, financial  assistance from the state will                                                               
improve  the economics  of the  project.   In answer  to question                                                               
three, he said the total cost of  the project is $39 million.  In                                                               
answer to  question four,  he said the  state has  contributed $1                                                               
million and  the Renewable Energy Fund  contributed $2.8 million,                                                               
thus  CVEA's Capital  Project Submission  and Information  System                                                               
(CAPSIS)  document is  for $35  million, of  which 50  percent is                                                               
requested from  the state.   In answer  to question  five, CVEA's                                                               
funding plan  for the  next five years  shows rapid  progress; in                                                               
fact,  power is  expected from  the project  within four  to five                                                               
years.  The license application  to FERC will be submitted within                                                               
four  months -  although FERC's  approval  may take  two years  -                                                               
during that  time, CVEA  will finalize  any remaining  design and                                                               
environmental  issues  in order  to  be  ready for  construction,                                                               
which is  expected to take  two seasons.   In answer  to question                                                               
six,  he  said  the  project  is  finished  with  the  scientific                                                               
research, has established the liabilities  and weaknesses, and is                                                               
moving toward final  design.  He assured the  committees that the                                                               
cost  of $39  million includes  all  of the  studies and  license                                                               
submission,  and the  construction  of  the diversion  structure,                                                               
powerhouse,  and  connection to  CVEA's  system.   In  answer  to                                                               
question seven, Mr.  Duhamel said ratepayers are  expected to pay                                                               
$0.21 per  kWh, although a  grant for  50 percent of  the project                                                               
drops the  cost to ratepayers to  just over $0.11 per  kWh, and a                                                               
grant of  $10 million drops the  cost to ratepayers to  $0.16 per                                                               
kWh.   In answer to  question eight,  he said his  community does                                                               
not have an active regional  energy planning body; however, local                                                               
organizations  are in  support  of  the project.    In answer  to                                                               
question  nine, he  said AEA  has  vetted the  project, in  fact,                                                               
since  2007 AEA  has assisted  with the  feasibility studies  and                                                               
license  application,  and CVEA  will  be  applying for  Round  5                                                               
Renewable Energy Fund grants.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUHAMEL  summarized that Allison  Creek Hydro is  a long-term                                                               
solution; although  the capital  investment is high,  the project                                                               
will produce  power for  50-100 years, and  he described  the low                                                               
maintenance  that   is  required   on  CVEA's   existing  turbine                                                               
generator.  He  attributed a drop in the census  in his community                                                               
to the cost of living, and  expressed CVEA's desire to lessen the                                                               
cost  of living  and  eliminate the  use of  at  least 1  million                                                               
gallons of  diesel, 19,000 tons  of greenhouse gases,  and 10,000                                                               
tons  of  hazardous pollutants  per  year.    The design  of  the                                                               
project  calls for  the  diversion  of water,  but  the water  is                                                               
returned  to the  stream for  salmon and  accommodations will  be                                                               
made  for Dolly  Varden  trout.   He closed  by  saying that  the                                                               
project is  ready to go and  advance CVEA's use of  hydro from 51                                                               
percent to 66 percent.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:54:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked for CVEA's current energy demand.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUHAMEL responded  that the current load  is 12-14 megawatts,                                                               
which varies  depending on  the amount  of electricity  needed by                                                               
commercial  customers.   In  further  response to  Representative                                                               
Tuck, he  said diversions are  not uncommon, in fact,  in Cordova                                                               
there is  a successful  ROR project  underway.   Furthermore, AEA                                                               
has provided the  project as much support as  possible during the                                                               
pre-phases and design.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked why this  project was not  included in                                                               
the governor's capital projects.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUHAMEL said he did not know.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:56:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT asked  for clarification on the  amount of CVEA's                                                               
request for funding.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUHAMEL confirmed  CVEA's CAPSIS request is for  a 50 percent                                                               
match, although the amount in the bill is $10 million.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:56:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON clarified that the  total cost is $39 million and                                                               
the  project  has  received  about $4  million  and  requests  an                                                               
additional $10 million.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:57:13 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER asked for a definition of anadromous fish.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUHAMEL  explained that anadromous  fish spend part  of their                                                               
time in  both freshwater and  saltwater such as salmon  and Dolly                                                               
Varden trout.   It is important not to interrupt  the waters that                                                               
facilitate their ability to breed and thrive, he said.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:58:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  announced the meeting  was recessed  until 12:55                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:58:45 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT reconvened the meeting  at 12:58 p.m.  Present at                                                               
the  call back  to  order  from the  House  Special Committee  on                                                               
Energy   were  Representatives   Pruitt,   Foster,  Lynn,   Tuck,                                                               
Petersen,  and  Saddler.    Present   from  the  House  Resources                                                               
Standing  Committee  were  Representatives Seaton,  Feige,  Dick,                                                               
Foster, Munoz, and P. Wilson.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:59:16 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  LEVITT, President,  Gustavus Electric  Company, informed                                                               
the  committees  the  hydroelectric   project  submitted  by  the                                                               
Gustavus Electric  Company is a  completed project that  has been                                                               
online  since  July  2009,  and   generates  96  percent  of  the                                                               
electricity needed  by the  community.  He  stated that  prior to                                                               
that,  electricity  in  Gustavus  was 100  percent  generated  by                                                               
diesel  fuel.   The project  cost  $8,400,000 and  was funded  by                                                               
$2,800,000 from  the Denali Commission, $1,500,000  from the U.S.                                                               
Department of Agriculture Rural  Utility Service, $1,450,000 from                                                               
state  capital appropriations,  and $750,000  from the  Renewable                                                               
Energy Fund  grant program.   The remainder  of the  financing is                                                               
outstanding balances  on $1,000,000  in loans from  AEA, $300,000                                                               
in private investor  loans, and $400,000 in  equity from Gustavus                                                               
Electric Company.   Mr. Levitt  noted that the  outstanding loans                                                               
were for construction  costs and do not include 25  years of pre-                                                               
construction  costs  for  permitting  and  FERC  licensing.    He                                                               
advised  that  the  cost  of  electricity  to  the  residents  of                                                               
Gustavus has been  reduced by 30 cents per kWh  through the cost-                                                               
of-power  adjustment   and  tariff   filed  quarterly   with  the                                                               
Regulatory  Commission  of  Alaska (RCA).    Currently,  Gustavus                                                               
Electric  Company is  paying approximately  $100,000 per  year in                                                               
principal and interest on the  loans, and is requesting relief of                                                               
the debt,  the repayment of  which is  not included in  the rates                                                               
charged to its  ratepayers at this time.  Based  on the amount of                                                               
kWhs sold  per year, recovery on  $100,000 per year is  just over                                                               
$0.06 per kWh to residents,  although the company has been paying                                                               
on the loans for  three years out of its revenues.   He was urged                                                               
by Representative  Thomas to  request relief  of the  debt rather                                                               
than raise  the rates.   If debt  relief is not  forthcoming, the                                                               
company  will file  a  new revenue  requirement  with the  Alaska                                                               
Public  Utilities Commission  to add  the debt  to the  rate base                                                               
which will  add $0.06 per kWh.   Currently, the electric  rate is                                                               
$0.26 per  kWh, which  is down  from the  highest diesel  rate of                                                               
$0.70  per  kWh,  and  Gustavus  is blessed  to  have  the  hydro                                                               
project; however,  he said this is  the last chance for  any kind                                                               
of  rate reduction  for the  residents of  Gustavus.   Mr. Levitt                                                               
provided  supporting documents  from  the  Gustavus City  Council                                                               
seeking  debt relief.   In  conclusion, he  pointed out  that the                                                               
2004 Gustavus Strategic  Plan identified the high  cost of energy                                                               
as  the highest  priority in  the community,  and the  lower cost                                                               
from the hydro facility will  benefit economic development, state                                                               
agencies, the  school, the Department of  Transportation & Public                                                               
Facilities, and the airport, in  addition to large savings to the                                                               
Power Cost Equalization (PCE) program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:06:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  surmised most of  the construction was  paid for                                                               
by grants and  the total amount obligated by the  utility is $1.3                                                               
million.   Further, the  hydro project  dropped the  utility rate                                                               
from $0.60 to  $0.32, and the requested amount to  fully fund the                                                               
project will drop the rate to $0.25.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT answered yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:07:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON asked whether residents receive PCE.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT answered yes, residents still qualify.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:08:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ asked  about  plans for  the National  Park                                                               
Service to convert from diesel.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEVITT  explained  that the  headquarters  for  Glacier  Bay                                                               
National Park  is eight  miles from Gustavus.   The  park service                                                               
has  a diesel  generating  system and  he  proposed installing  a                                                               
transmission line to  provide power to the park,  but it refused.                                                               
The  hydro  plant  is  sized  to supply  the  park  and  Gustavus                                                               
Electric Company would like them  to participate because they are                                                               
burning  diesel and  the increase  in sales  would help  with the                                                               
cost  of  operation and  maintenance  of  the  plant.   The  park                                                               
service recently  expressed interest  in connecting to  the power                                                               
plant, however, at this time nothing has happened.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:11:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ offered her assistance.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT  related that the Alaska  Congressional delegation and                                                               
legislators have urged for a response.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:12:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT  observed that  $4.3  million  of federal  money                                                               
helped build  the hydro  plant.   He asked  how the  park service                                                               
participation would affect the cost per kWh to the ratepayers.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT gave two possible options:   the park could buy excess                                                               
hydro  power for  a fixed  price when  it is  available; Gustavus                                                               
Electric  Company  could provide  all  of  the park's  power  and                                                               
supplement with diesel at a higher  cost when necessary.  He said                                                               
other  options  are  possible,  but  the  park  service  has  not                                                               
responded to his efforts to meet.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:14:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  clarified that the  $1.3 million  requested from                                                               
the state would  pay off AEA and any private  investor loans, but                                                               
that  the utility  rate is  adjusted for  the administration  and                                                               
maintenance of the facility.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEVITT  explained  the entire  distribution  and  generating                                                               
system of  the electric company  - except  for the hydro  plant -                                                               
was  built with  zero public  funds, thus  the rates  include the                                                               
diesel plant,  which will be  retained as back-up generator.   In                                                               
further  response to  Co-Chair Pruitt,  he said  the year  around                                                               
population in Gustavus is 500, and double that in the summer.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:16:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FOSTER asked  for  the electrical  demand  of the  park                                                               
service.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT  offered its average demand  is 50 percent of  that of                                                               
Gustavus.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:17:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked how  much the residents receive in                                                               
PCE money.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEVITT estimated  "a few  cents."   In  further response  to                                                               
Representative  P. Wilson,  he said  $0.26 is  the base  rate and                                                               
residences with  PCE pay about $0.19  for the first 500  kWhs per                                                               
month.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:18:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON  asked what the reduction would  be as a                                                               
result of adding the park service to the system.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEVITT said  he was  unsure, but  different scenarios  would                                                               
lower the rate to all of  the ratepayers.  In further response to                                                               
Representative P. Wilson,  he said any estimate of  the effect of                                                               
the park service would be based on assumptions.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:21:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON asked for the capacity of the hydro project.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT  responded one megawatt.   In further response  to Co-                                                               
Chair  Seaton, he  said the  electric company  has to  supplement                                                               
with  diesel in  periods of  low  flow as  happened last  winter;                                                               
however, this was predicted in the analysis of the project.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  observed the  electric  company  would have  to                                                               
supplement  with diesel  a higher  percentage  of time  if it  is                                                               
supplying the park service.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:23:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON questioned  why the park  service would                                                               
buy electricity if it could generate its own.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEVITT advised  that 65  percent  of the  time the  electric                                                               
company could provide with all of the park's needs with hydro.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:24:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT asked for clarification on power usage.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEVITT restated  that 65  percent of  the time  the electric                                                               
company could  provide all  of Gustavus and  the park  with hydro                                                               
power.  In further response to  Co-Chair Pruitt, he said the park                                                               
service's estimate to connect is $5 million.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:26:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER   surmised  the  state  support   is  not                                                               
critical.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT responded that without  debt relief, the loan payments                                                               
will continue for  30 years and rates will increase.   In further                                                               
response  to Representative  Saddler, he  said there  is no  time                                                               
limit on the new rate filing with the RCA.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVITT, in  response to Co-Chair Pruitt,  said the percentage                                                               
rate with AEA is 4.8 or 4.7.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:27:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE   KLINE,  Electric   Division   Manager,  Ketchikan   Public                                                               
Utilities  (KPU),   read  the  following   [original  punctuation                                                               
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Ketchikan Public Utilities  (KPU) serves 7,600 electric                                                                    
     residential,   commercial   and   industrial   accounts                                                                    
     supporting   a  population   of  approximately   13,000                                                                    
     people.      Ketchikan   Public   Utilities   generates                                                                    
     approximately 40  percent of its own  electrical energy                                                                    
     and  purchases 60  percent  from  the Southeast  Alaska                                                                    
     Power Agency  (SEAPA).  Both  KPU and  SEAPA generation                                                                    
     is hydro with  KPU diesel being used  when hydro energy                                                                    
     runs   short.  Current   and  planned   development  in                                                                    
     Ketchikan  as well  as heating  conversions, driven  by                                                                    
     the rising  cost of oil,  results in a  projection that                                                                    
     Ketchikan  may  need as  much  as  30 million  kWhs  of                                                                    
     additional energy beyond  the current consumption level                                                                    
     in  the next  several years.    This is  an 18  percent                                                                    
     increase over  the 170,000  million kWhs  generated and                                                                    
     purchased  in 2010.    Significant  components of  this                                                                    
     increase are expansions and  processing changes of fish                                                                    
     processors, business  expansion by Alaska Ship  and Dry                                                                    
     Dock,   large  heating   conversions   by  the   school                                                                    
     district,  a  new  community pool,  and  a  new  Alaska                                                                    
     Marine Highway System  administration and yard facility                                                                    
     at Ward  Cove.  Efforts  have begun to  encourage other                                                                    
     heating technologies to  reduce this demand projection.                                                                    
     Conservation and  demand response mechanisms  are being                                                                    
     considered but  additional generation is  still needed.                                                                    
     The  Whitman  hydro  project  will  help  address  this                                                                    
     supply need.   Whitman is  a 4.6 megawatt  project that                                                                    
     will  supply an  additional 16  million kWhs  annually.                                                                    
     In 2011  to date,  in spite of  KPU and  SEAPA starting                                                                    
     with full hydro reservoirs  ahead of the winter heating                                                                    
     season, KPU  and SEAPA  were short  of hydro  energy by                                                                    
     mid-April   requiring  3.1   million  kWhs   of  diesel                                                                    
     generation  support.  Ketchikan  Public  Utilities  has                                                                    
     just  completed three  weeks  of  diesel generation  to                                                                    
     meet  local power  consumption.    The Whitman  project                                                                    
     will  displace  over  one  million  gallons  of  diesel                                                                    
     annually.  Just  the fuel cost of  producing 16 million                                                                    
     kWhs with diesel  would be $0.26 per kWh,  to be passed                                                                    
     to  customers,  at  the  current  price  of  $3.93  per                                                                    
     gallon.   If constructed with the  funding as currently                                                                    
     proposed, the cost of production  from Whitman would be                                                                    
     in the $0.06-$0.07  per kWh range.  This  is similar to                                                                    
     KPU's  current  purchased  power   rate  and  would  be                                                                    
     neutral in terms of pressure  on customer rates.  Total                                                                    
     project cost  in $19.4  million and  approximately $2.7                                                                    
     million has been  spent to date to  permit, license and                                                                    
     develop  the  project.     Of  this,  approximately  $1                                                                    
     million  has been  local funds  while $1.7  million has                                                                    
     been  from  AEA  Renewable   Energy  grants.    Pending                                                                    
     approval  of Whitman  within the  capital budget  under                                                                    
     consideration,  the  city  will bond  for  the  balance                                                                    
     needed  to  complete the  project  and  satisfy the  50                                                                    
     percent  maximum state  investment criteria  of SB  46,                                                                    
     Version T.   This funding will complete  the project by                                                                    
     2016 and  no further funding requests  are anticipated.                                                                    
     The  amount of  $2.3 million  has been  granted to  the                                                                    
     project  to  date by  the  AEA  Renewable Energy  Grant                                                                    
     Fund.   Another  $700,000 is  under consideration  from                                                                    
     this fund  in this budget  cycle.  On this  basis, this                                                                    
     project has  been vetted  with AEA.   Efforts  to build                                                                    
     this  project started  prior to  1997.   As is  typical                                                                    
     with almost  all hydro projects, the  licensing process                                                                    
     took well  beyond the five  year process defined.   The                                                                    
     FERC  license  was  finally  issued  in  February  2009                                                                    
     starting the two year clock  to begin construction.  An                                                                    
     extension  was requested  by Ketchikan  and granted  by                                                                    
     the FERC in  late 2010 such that  construction must now                                                                    
     start by February of 2013.   Only one such extension is                                                                    
     granted  by the  FERC.   Failure to  start construction                                                                    
     will   result  in   loss  of   the  license.     Should                                                                    
     construction  not  start  by February  2013,  the  only                                                                    
     potential remedy would be a  stay of the license by the                                                                    
     U. S.  Congress.  The  license now  requires completion                                                                    
     of the  project in  early 2016.   Assuming construction                                                                    
     starts in 2013, operation  is anticipated in late 2015.                                                                    
     The Whitman  hydro plant will  be constructed  using an                                                                    
     existing dam.   The transmission  corridor requirements                                                                    
     are minimal due  to the plant location  being less than                                                                    
     a half-mile  to KPU's transmission which  also provides                                                                    
     interconnection  to  the   other  SEAPA  interconnected                                                                    
     communities.    The  Whitman  project  is  near  shovel                                                                    
     ready.  Engineering is nearly  final.  The FERC license                                                                    
     is in  place.  The equipment  specifications are ready.                                                                    
     KPU will  initiate contracting efforts when  funding is                                                                    
     finalized.  This project is  supported by the Ketchikan                                                                    
     City Council  and Ketchikan Gateway Borough  and is the                                                                    
     number one  project for the  Community of  Ketchikan as                                                                    
     agreed upon by the  Ketchikan Gateway Borough, the City                                                                    
     of  Ketchikan, and  the  City of  Saxman.   Letters  of                                                                    
     support have  also been issued by  the Ketchikan School                                                                    
     District  and Oceans  Alaska, a  marine science  center                                                                    
     under  development  in  Ketchikan.   Whitman  has  been                                                                    
     identified  by the  IRP  Working Group  as  one of  the                                                                    
     projects that  should move ahead  of completion  of the                                                                    
     IRP and is identified in that resolution.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:34:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked for clarification on  the amount of                                                               
grant funds from AEA.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KLINE explained  that $1.7  million has  been expended  from                                                               
total grant funds of $2.3 million.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:35:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK recalled  that in  2009 the  governor vetoed                                                               
all  but  $1  million  for  the project.    He  asked  what  that                                                               
allocation was used for.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE stated  that in the beginning, a portion  of that money                                                               
was used towards design; however,  the project is now "sitting on                                                               
the  edge" and  facing  loss of  the FERC  license.   In  further                                                               
response to  Representative Tuck, he  said the funding  will come                                                               
from  AEA  grants,  $1  million   from  the  City  of  Ketchikan,                                                               
approximately $8 million from the  state, and $8 million in bonds                                                               
by the city.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:36:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  clarified that the  original submission  was for                                                               
$15,680,000, but $8,025,000 is in the capital budget.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:37:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ inquired as  to the relationship between KPU                                                               
and SEAPA.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE responded  that KPU is a member of  SEAPA and purchases                                                               
65 percent  of its energy  from SEAPA; in  fact, KPU sits  on the                                                               
SEAPA  board of  directors,  and interacts  with  them to  manage                                                               
energy.   The power sales  agreement (PDA) between SEAPA  and its                                                               
member  communities  allows  the communities  to  generate  their                                                               
energy locally,  and purchase  more from SEAPA  on demand.   This                                                               
creates a "very tight,  close, working operational relationship."                                                               
In  further  response  to Representative  Munoz,  he  said  SEAPA                                                               
controls the Swan Lake to Tyee Lake asset.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:38:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ asked  if this  project would  connect with                                                               
the Swan Lake to Tyee intertie.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE  answered the Whitman  hydroelectric project  would tie                                                               
in to the  KUP transmission system which is  connected to SEAPA's                                                               
system.   In further  response to  Representative Munoz,  he said                                                               
that  other proposed  projects in  the area  include the  Mahoney                                                               
Lake project  - in which Saxman  in a partner -  and others which                                                               
are  being considered  under the  integrated resource  plan (IRP)                                                               
and will have access to  the intertie, subject to operational and                                                               
engineering studies.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ concluded  the other  projects will  not be                                                               
prevented from having access to the intertie.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE observed  these questions would be for  the SEAPA board                                                               
of directors  to answer;  KPU may not  prevent a  connection, but                                                               
may charge  a rate  to move  power between  the SEAPA  system and                                                               
Mahoney.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:39:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ asked  whether  KPU intends  to extend  its                                                               
long-term contract  with Alaska  Ship &  Drydock, Inc.  to supply                                                               
power for an industrial rate.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE said the existing contract is for a term of 30 years.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:40:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON reviewed  the  current and  projected costs  and                                                               
asked for the current rate to customers in Ketchikan.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KLINE answered  that Ketchikan's  residential  rate is  9.58                                                               
cents per  kWh and the  SEAPA portion is 6.8  cents per kWh.   If                                                               
Whitman is financed by a  50/50 partnership with the state, there                                                               
will be  no increase on  rates as  a result of  its construction.                                                               
In further  clarification to  Co-Chair Seaton,  he said  the 9.58                                                               
cents  rate  is  exclusive  of   diesel,  and  the  city  adds  a                                                               
surcharge, spread over six months,  in addition to the 9.58 cents                                                               
when using diesel.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:42:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  referred  to  the project's  use  of  an                                                               
existing   hydro  dam   and  asked   what   components  will   be                                                               
constructed.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE  responded that  the project  will build  a powerhouse,                                                               
penstock, and a diversion dam.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:43:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked whether  the project would satisfy                                                               
the FERC  deadline to  begin construction  before March  16, 2013                                                               
without the requested funding.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE  indicated no.   In further response  to Representative                                                               
Wilson, he opined  the chances of obtaining a new  license if the                                                               
existing one expires are remote.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:44:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK asked  for  KPU's  "back-up" or  contingency                                                               
plan.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KLINE cautioned  the back-up  will be  an increasing  use of                                                               
diesel.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:45:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN asked  whether  the  diversion of  water                                                               
will have any effects on the Whitman Lake hatchery.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KLINE said  no.   The  design of  the  project is  "hatchery                                                               
sensitive," and  will maintain the temperatures  necessary to the                                                               
hatchery; in fact, the hatchery  has provided a letter of support                                                               
for the  project.   He stressed that  protecting the  hatchery is                                                               
critical to the economy of the region.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  cautioned  that SEAPA  gets its  first                                                               
choice for power,  and Ketchikan is secondary.   In addition, the                                                               
other member communities are growing, she said.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KLINE  agreed.    In  fact, since  2009,  the  three  member                                                               
communities of  Wrangell, Petersburg, and Ketchikan  have used 16                                                               
percent  more energy,  he said.   He  affirmed that  Wrangell and                                                               
Petersburg  have the  first option  for the  water from  the Tyee                                                               
reservoir.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:47:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  expressed interest in knowing  how state funding                                                               
for the project will lower the consumer rate.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE estimated  that if the project is  funded without state                                                               
participation and is fully bonded,  the rate is affected by 11-13                                                               
cents per kWh.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:49:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  surmised if that  were the situation,  KPU would                                                               
not go forward with the project.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE deferred to the Ketchikan City Council.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:49:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  referred  to   the  $10  million  in  AEA's                                                               
Southeast  Energy  Fund  and  asked  whether  the  Whitman  hydro                                                               
project could apply for a portion of those funds.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLINE said he did not know.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:49:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARA  FISHER-GOAD, Executive  Director,  Alaska Energy  Authority                                                               
(AEA), Department  of Commerce, Community &  Economic Development                                                               
(DCCED),  with  respect to  the  $10  million for  the  Southeast                                                               
Energy Fund, responded that if  the appropriation stands AEA will                                                               
develop  a   criteria  and  application  process   for  potential                                                               
grantees.  She  cautioned that it will take time  to go through a                                                               
full  regulatory process  before  grants could  be  issued.   She                                                               
mentioned  that the  working group  of  the Southeast  Integrated                                                               
Resource Plan (SEIRP),  led by AEA, suggested  that some projects                                                               
should move  forward without waiting  for the SEIRP due  to their                                                               
advanced stages  of permitting and  licensing.  She  expected the                                                               
use of the $10 million would  be to ensure that concepts from the                                                               
SEIRP are  integrated for grantee applications.   She anticipated                                                               
that the  project and  others would  be recommended  for funding,                                                               
but was  uncertain if  the timing  was appropriate  and cautioned                                                               
that Southeast  Alaska is a large  area so $10 million  would not                                                               
go very  far.  She thought  the circumstance might be  similar to                                                               
one  AEA uses  with the  Renewable Energy  Fund grant  program in                                                               
that a $2  million and $4 million cap is  used to ensure adequate                                                               
spreading  of projects  throughout  the state.   Ms.  Fisher-Goad                                                               
opined the project  was likely eligible, but she  could not state                                                               
whether the project would receive full funding.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:52:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK   said  that  according  to   the  Southeast                                                               
Electrical Intertie  Study, the  Southeast Conference  would like                                                               
to see six  projects move forward without waiting  for the SEIRP.                                                               
He inquired  as to whether all  of the projects are  supported by                                                               
AEA.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FISHER-GOAD answered  by  detailing the  status  of the  six                                                               
projects that were  mentioned in the SEIRP's  advisory work group                                                               
resolution.    She  reported that  the  Blue  Lake  Hydroelectric                                                               
Project  is  subject  to  the  capital  budget,  and  that  AEA's                                                               
involvement with the  Blue Lake project has not  been through the                                                               
Renewable  Energy  Fund grant  program,  but  to manage  a  $12.5                                                               
million grant that was provided to  the City and Borough of Sitka                                                               
several years  ago.  Regarding the  Kake-Petersburg Intertie, she                                                               
said  this complicated  project has  several grants  and AEA  has                                                               
been working  through issues  with the grantee.   She  stated the                                                               
Metlakatla-Ketchikan  Intertie is  another project  that AEA  has                                                               
been involved with that is subject  to SB 46.  The Reynolds Creek                                                               
Hydroelectric  Project  is a  project  that  has had  significant                                                               
loans  approved  by the  legislature  last  year and  this  year.                                                               
Additionally, this  project received  both Renewable  Energy Fund                                                               
grant funding  and some designated grants,  including one through                                                               
Southeast Conference.   She also  reported that the  Thayer Creek                                                               
Hydroelectric Project  is part of  Renewable Energy Fund  Round 4                                                               
funding,  and the  sixth project  is  Whitman Lake.   In  further                                                               
response to  Representative Tuck, she answered  that the projects                                                               
have not been  ranked by the advisory group  that recommended all                                                               
of the projects should move forward.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:55:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  asked for clarification  on whether the  cost to                                                               
users is based  on the $4 million gap between  the estimated cost                                                               
of  the  project  and  the funding;  basically,  whether  the  $4                                                               
million  would be  applied to  make the  potential $0.03  per kWh                                                               
cost  because the  remaining  would have  been  covered by  other                                                               
state  funding.     He  restated:  The   difference  between  the                                                               
estimated construction  cost and the  funding cost is  about $3.5                                                               
million, which is what the $0.03 per kWh cost is based upon.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KLEIN agreed,  except  the amount  is in  the  $.06 to  $.07                                                               
range.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:56:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT continued, relating  that the proposed funding is                                                               
less than KPU  initially requested thus KPU would  need to obtain                                                               
bonding.   He inquired  as to  the cost to  the consumer  if this                                                               
project  is funded  in the  current capacity,  and KPU  needed to                                                               
bond for the remaining portion.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. KLEIN  reiterated that it  would be in  the $.06 to  $.07 per                                                               
kWh range.  In further response  to Co-Chair Pruitt, he said this                                                               
is the final request on the  Whitman Lake project.  He said, "Our                                                               
backs are against  the wall."  He related that  depending on what                                                               
the legislature  decides, and if  the bond amount is  higher than                                                               
$8  million, the  local government  will need  to make  the final                                                               
determination.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:57:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DARRON  SCOTT,  President  and  Chief  Executive  Officer  (CEO),                                                               
Kodiak  Electric  Association, Inc.  (KEA),  stated  that KEA  is                                                               
working  hard to  fulfill  its  vision which  is  to endeavor  to                                                               
produce  95  percent of  its  energy  sales with  cost  effective                                                               
renewable  power solutions  by the  year 2020.   Kodiak  Electric                                                               
Association  does not  include  diesel in  its  future; in  fact,                                                               
power  generation at  this  time  is about  80  percent hydro,  9                                                               
percent wind and  11 percent diesel.  Terror  Lake Hydro Facility                                                               
was built in the early '80s  with two 11.25 megawatt hydro units.                                                               
However, the penstock  was designed with a third  outlet ready to                                                               
accept  a  third unit.    Today,  Kodiak's electrical  needs  are                                                               
growing  and the  project would  add  the third  turbine and  the                                                               
associated  equipment  which would  expand  the  capacity of  the                                                               
hydro  plant by  50  percent  to 33.75  MW.    The Kodiak  system                                                               
supplies power to  the community of Kodiak, the  U.S. Coast Guard                                                               
(USCG) base, and the communities  of Port Lyons and Chinak, which                                                               
have a  combined peak load  of about 26 MW.   As the  peak output                                                               
for Terror  Lake hydro is  currently 22 MW, the  additional power                                                               
needed is generated  by expensive diesel fuel.   The installation                                                               
of  a third  turbine will  eliminate the  need for  diesel during                                                               
peak  loads, and  would  also provide  the  redundancy needed  to                                                               
perform  maintenance on  the hydro  units.   Furthermore, because                                                               
newer hydro  units are more  efficient, KEA should increase  to 3                                                               
million kWhs  from this expansion.   Finally, this  project would                                                               
provide  grid stability  to KEA  since  the power  from hydro  is                                                               
increased as the wind power  declines; in fact, the hydroelectric                                                               
power is dispatchable and counted on  "to keep the lights on," as                                                               
the wind fluctuates.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT explained that wind  energy is the most cost-effective,                                                               
renewable  energy  source  for Kodiak's  future;  however,  three                                                               
hydro  turbines  on  the electrical  grid  working  together  are                                                               
necessary to  take full  benefit from future  wind projects.   He                                                               
stated that  AEA has vetted the  project, and it is  currently in                                                               
the  Renewable  Energy  Fund  grant program  Round  4  for  $3.75                                                               
million,  ranked very  high; for  example, the  economic analysis                                                               
showed  a cost  benefit  of  2.21, based  on  last fall's  diesel                                                               
prices.  In addition, he noted  Pillar Mountain Wind Farm Phase 1                                                               
provides 4.5  MW of wind power  and Phase 2 will  add another 4.5                                                               
MW of  wind to the  system.  Mr. Scott  opined it will  be highly                                                               
problematic  to put  the  additional  wind from  Phase  2 on  the                                                               
system without  the third turbine.   With the  additional turbine                                                               
and Phase  2, Kodiak residents could  save 17 cents per  kWh, and                                                               
could  add 17  million  kWhs of  power per  year  to its  system,                                                               
saving  the  community nearly  $3  million  in  year one  of  the                                                               
project.   He characterized the community's  support of renewable                                                               
energy as "ecstatic," and noted  additional support from the City                                                               
of Kodiak,  the Kodiak Island  Borough, the USCG, and  the Kodiak                                                               
Chamber  of Commerce.    In  terms of  status  and schedule,  the                                                               
project is well  underway in the FERC permitting  process and has                                                               
obtained  numerous waivers  from other  agencies, including  U.S.                                                               
Fish  and Wildlife,  the Alaska  Department of  Fish &  Game, and                                                               
U.S. Army  Corps of  Engineers,.  He  reported that  the agencies                                                               
have  not  found any  negative  environmental  impacts since  the                                                               
plant was  built for expansion.   He  relayed that KEA  has begun                                                               
some of  the transformation construction and  anticipated it will                                                               
purchase   the  generator   and   turbine  this   fall  so   that                                                               
installation will  begin during  the summer  of 2013.   Regarding                                                               
the funding source, he restated  the project's high position with                                                               
AEA, adding that  KEA has secured low-interest  financing for the                                                               
remainder  of the  project through  the  federal Clean  Renewable                                                               
Energy Bonds (CREBs) program.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT  concluded that  KEA is excited  about the  project and                                                               
the  grid stability  it  would bring  to  Kodiak.   Additionally,                                                               
adding the third  turbine is imperative to help KEA  reach its 95                                                               
percent renewable energy goal.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:08:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  informed  the  committee  that  he  was                                                               
impressed after  seeing the  Pillar Mountain  Wind Farm  Phase 1.                                                               
He  asked whether  the expansion  of Pillar  Mountain Wind  would                                                               
double the wind generation.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT indicated  yes.  He explained that  in conjunction with                                                               
the hydroelectric  expansion, KEA  would like  to add  three more                                                               
wind turbines to the site.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:09:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  related   his  understanding  that  the                                                               
Terror  Lake expansion  provides the  best way  to integrate  the                                                               
wind into the system.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT agreed, noting that  KEA needs the stability, capacity,                                                               
and  horsepower of  hydro to  utilize  the power.   For  example,                                                               
during a  day using 23-24  MW, there may  be plenty of  water but                                                               
because the  wind fluctuates  it is necessary  to have  the hydro                                                               
power to cover  the load.  He pointed out  that the third turbine                                                               
at Terror  Lake alleviates this  issue.  Kodiak's power  load has                                                               
increased  so it  is becoming  more imperative  to add  the third                                                               
turbine.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked for the price  difference between wind                                                               
and hydro power per kWh.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT  advised that the  hydro turbine would price  the power                                                               
at 6.8  cents per kWh, and  the existing and future  wind sources                                                               
at Pillar Mountain would provide power for 12 cents per kWh.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:10:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked which type  of project he would prefer:                                                               
wind or hydro.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT  stated "if all  things stayed exactly even,  hydro you                                                               
can count  on."  However,  after examination  by KEA, due  to the                                                               
capital and installation costs of  hydro, wind power was the most                                                               
cost effective.  He reiterated  that he would prefer hydro power,                                                               
but the two sources work very well together.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked for the  rationale behind expanding the                                                               
wind farm before the third turbine was added.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT explained the process as  a parallel process.  In fact,                                                               
KEA began working on the third turbine at Terror Lake in 2007-                                                                  
2008, but  the primary  focus was on  Pillar Mountain  Wind Farm,                                                               
Phase 1, because  it was the most cost-effective.   He opined the                                                               
two sources work together to  amplify their benefits saying, "One                                                               
is good.   The other is  good.  Together they're  great."  Kodiak                                                               
Electric Association  considered other  hydro projects  that were                                                               
separate,  but   the  projects  were   not  as   cost  effective.                                                               
Furthermore,  until two  years ago,  SEAPA owned  Terror Lake  as                                                               
part of  the Four Dam  Pool; after  KEA took ownership,  it moved                                                               
forward with adding the third turbine.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK related  his understanding  that wind  needs                                                               
hydro or  some other  means as  a main  generator and  that hydro                                                               
power is cheaper once the projects  are finished.  He inquired as                                                               
to whether hydro can stand alone or if it needs wind.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SCOTT answered  no.    He acknowledged  that  "in the  grand                                                               
scheme  of things"  hydro costs  are cheaper,  but the  available                                                               
resources  also have  to be  considered.   He responded  that the                                                               
Terror Lake third  turbine can stand on its  own completely, will                                                               
be cost  effective, will  bring more efficiency,  and add  to the                                                               
grid stability  and the peak load  capacity.  On the  other hand,                                                               
adding  wind in  the  future will  make the  system  better.   He                                                               
stressed that  the expansion will  be a great project  for Kodiak                                                               
and will last for 50 to l00 years.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:14:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON understood  that the  Terror Lake  project would                                                               
provide electricity for a produced cost  of 6.8 cents and wind at                                                               
12 cents.  He inquired as to the consumer price for electricity.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:15:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SCOTT affirmed  the  production cost  for  hydro, after  the                                                               
third turbine is  installed, will be 6.8 cents per  kWh, and wind                                                               
power is 12 cents per kWh.   The residential rates are 13.8 cents                                                               
plus a surcharge for  diesel fuel at 4.2 cents for  a total of 18                                                               
cents  per kWh.    In  further response  to  Co-Chair Seaton,  he                                                               
confirmed  that the  4.2 cent  surcharge is  added to  everyone's                                                               
bill for each kWh used, primarily due to KEA's diesel usage.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:16:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK understood  that wind  power is  "wonderful"                                                               
but sporadic.   He inquired as  to whether it is  possible to use                                                               
wind power to pump water up for storage.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT answered that the  process he has described is referred                                                               
to as  "pumped hydro" and  is utilized  in some areas  around the                                                               
world.   However, he  related some  inefficiency exists  with the                                                               
process.   Essentially,  although the  water is  not pumped,  the                                                               
concept is  used in Kodiak  since when  there is more  wind, less                                                               
hydroelectric power is  used and the water is saved  in the lake.                                                               
When the  wind subsides the saved  water is used.   He reiterated                                                               
that the pumped hydro is a  process currently used but it is more                                                               
expensive.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:18:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  related his understanding  that KEA  would share                                                               
the cost with the  state at a ratio of 50:50.   He inquired as to                                                               
whether  KEA will  achieve  its 50  percent  obligation with  the                                                               
current capital budget request.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SCOTT  answered yes,  including  the  $3.75 million  in  the                                                               
capital budget and the additional  $3.75 million in the Renewable                                                               
Energy Fund Round 4 budget as well.   He said that would push the                                                               
project to the 50:50 split  considering the KEA's bonding and the                                                               
state's participation.   In further response  to Co-Chair Pruitt,                                                               
he answered that  this would be the only funding  request and the                                                               
project should be completed by summer of 2013.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:21:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL BRYANT, General Manager, Metlakatla  Power and Light (MP&L),                                                               
explained  the proposed  Metlakatla-Ketchikan Intertie  is a  16-                                                               
mile  transmission  line to  intertie  Metlakatla  Power &  Light                                                               
(ML&P) with Ketchikan's power utility.   Metlakatla Power & Light                                                               
would sell  approximately 8 million  kWhs of excess  hydro energy                                                               
to Ketchikan  Public Utilities (KPU) and/or  the Southeast Alaska                                                               
Power Agency (SEAPA).  Construction  on the overhead line portion                                                               
along  14 miles  from  the newly  constructed  Walden Point  Road                                                               
began  last summer;  permitting  and construction  or a  one-mile                                                               
submarine cable will  commence pending future funding.   He noted                                                               
the cost  of the project is  estimated at $12.7 million,  and KPU                                                               
and  MP&L  have been  working  on  the  project  since 1999.    A                                                               
feasibility study  completed for  KPU in 1999-2000  estimated the                                                               
intertie  project  could  be built  in  a  two-year  construction                                                               
period for about  $3.4 million.  However,  MP&L received $820,000                                                               
from  the Renewable  Energy Fund  grants  Round 1  for the  final                                                               
design, and  through that  process derived  a cost  projection of                                                               
$12 million.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT  mentioned that the  immediate benefit of  the project                                                               
would be  to displace  the use  of diesel  in the  communities of                                                               
Ketchikan,   Petersburg,  and   Wrangell.     Eventually,   after                                                               
construction of  a Kake-Petersburg intertie, MP&L's  excess hydro                                                               
power could be transmitted to Kake.   In addition to this funding                                                               
request,  three  other hydro  projects  have  been identified  to                                                               
complete  the  overall  framework  of  the  system,  which  would                                                               
potentially increase  the capacity of  power from 8  million kWhs                                                               
to 9.8  megawatt (MW),  or 33  million kWhs.   He  reiterated the                                                               
project  status  by relating  that  the  overhead line  is  under                                                               
construction.   Over the past  10 years there has  been unanimous                                                               
support for the project from  Ketchikan and the Metlakatla Indian                                                               
Community Council  and Executives.  Furthermore,  the project has                                                               
been vetted by the AEA; in fact,  the project is listed as one of                                                               
the six projects recommended for funding  this year by the by the                                                               
Southeast Integrated Resource Plan (IRP).   The Round 1 Renewable                                                               
Energy  grant  included  a  stipulation  for  matching  funds  of                                                               
$160,000, and MP&L has expended close  to $200,000 thus far.  The                                                               
sources of  existing funding  include appropriations  of $500,000                                                               
from  the  Denali  Commission  for pole  line  hardware  for  the                                                               
present  construction project,  a  $2,000,000 appropriation  from                                                               
last year's  governor's budget, and  $820,000 in Round  1 funding                                                               
from the Renewable Energy Fund.   He pointed out that the project                                                               
is on  the priority list  for the area's regional  plan, although                                                               
he was  unsure of  its ranking.   Finally,  the project  has been                                                               
vetted by AEA, he said.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:27:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN  asked for  the consumers' power  rate in                                                               
Metlakatla.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT  answered 9.2 cents per  kWh.  In further  response to                                                               
Representative  Petersen,   he  agreed   the  intertie   has  the                                                               
potential to reduce rates.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:28:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN  recalled that helicopters  are sometimes                                                               
required to bring  in poles and to aid in  line construction.  He                                                               
inquired as to whether that would be necessary for this project.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRYANT  responded  no.     The  overhead  portion  is  being                                                               
constructed along the  new Walden Point Road so  the project will                                                               
not require the use of helicopters.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:28:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  pointed out  a number  of proposed  projects for                                                               
Southeast.  He inquired as to  whether MP&L will sell hydro power                                                               
to nearby Ketchikan or if Ketchikan will be fully supplied.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT related  that Ketchikan is very  quickly expending its                                                               
hydro resources so  MP&L will be in the position  to supply power                                                               
to  Ketchikan  and  to  the SEAPA  customers  of  Petersburg  and                                                               
Wrangell.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:30:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   P.  WILSON   understood   that  Metlakatla   can                                                               
currently meet its peak power needs.   She inquired as to whether                                                               
this intertie project  is necessary to reduce  future power costs                                                               
to customers, and whether MP&L will make money on this project.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT  answered that the  initial impetus for  this proposed                                                               
project  was to  provide a  revenue  stream for  Metlakatla.   In                                                               
1999, Metlakatla's  primary employer,  the Annette  Hemlock Mill,                                                               
closed due to  impacts from federal rulings,  and left Metlakatla                                                               
with an 80-90 percent unemployment  rate.  His company recognized                                                               
it had  excess energy  due to  the mill closure,  so it  began to                                                               
explore  how  to market  it.    Although  the initial  reason  to                                                               
consider the project was to  create a revenue stream, the project                                                               
will also lower rates for the consumer base in Metlakatla.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:32:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARLENE  CAMPBELL,  Director,   Government  Relations,  City  and                                                               
Borough of Sitka, summarized that  the expansion of the Blue Lake                                                               
Hydroelectric  Project would  expand  the hydro  facility to  its                                                               
maximum  energy  capacity  and  is  the  first  priority  of  the                                                               
community  of Sitka  and the  City  and Borough  of Sitka  (CBS),                                                               
which  serves  approximately 9,000  people.    This project  been                                                               
studied  by AEA,  the  Southeast Conference,  and  the local  CBS                                                               
utility since the  '80s.  Currently, CBS has  exhausted its hydro                                                               
resources, and to illustrate this  she detailed the past winter's                                                               
experience  when the  electric utility  issued a  "red alert"  to                                                               
advise citizens to  conserve energy to minimize  the CBS's diesel                                                               
generation.   Load  studies predict  up to  5 million  gallons of                                                               
fuel  oil  for use  in  supplemental  diesel generators  will  be                                                               
required prior to completion of  the Blue Lake Expansion Project,                                                               
based on  an annual load growth  at 1.2 percent.   However, since                                                               
2007,  the   electric  system   has  seen   unprecedented  growth                                                               
averaging 3.8 percent annually.   The community has been courting                                                               
economic  development without  having  the means  to provide  any                                                               
additional  power.   She related  that developers  of a  new fish                                                               
plant have  been interested in  locating in Sitka, but  cannot do                                                               
so due  to a  lack of  power.   She reiterated  that the  lack of                                                               
power  makes  it less  attractive  for  other new  industries  to                                                               
relocate in Sitka.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CAMPBELL  explained the  proposed  Blue  Lake project  would                                                               
raise the height  of the existing dam by 83  feet to an elevation                                                               
of  425  feet  and  construct  a new  intake  structure  and  new                                                               
penstock  to supply  a new  powerhouse adjacent  to the  existing                                                               
powerhouse.  The new powerhouse  would replace the existing two 3                                                               
MW generators  with three 5.3  MW generators which  will increase                                                               
the  installed  capacity from  7.5  MW  to  17  MW.   This  would                                                               
increase  Sitka's  total  annual electric  energy  production  by                                                               
approximately  32,000  mWh, or  by  29  percent of  its  existing                                                               
capacity.   Sitka  has aggressively  engaged  in the  preliminary                                                               
engineering and licensing phase of  the expansion, she said, with                                                               
a  goal to  complete  construction and  bring  on the  additional                                                               
hydro capacity online  by 2015.  This capital  funding request is                                                               
for $28.5 million which would  fully fund the state's interest in                                                               
the  $100  million  Blue Lake  Hydroelectric  Project  Expansion.                                                               
Further, CBS plans  to more than match the  state's assistance by                                                               
financing the project with 50  percent state funds and 50 percent                                                               
municipal  funds.   Ms.  Campbell  advised  that local  community                                                               
strongly supports  the proposal as evidenced  in public hearings,                                                               
and the  project also has  strong support from the  CBS Assembly,                                                               
the Sitka  Conservation Society, and environmental  groups.  This                                                               
project has undergone a public  process, and she noted that bonds                                                               
for  the project  were supported  by an  80 percent  public vote.                                                               
The overall  project cost  estimate is for  $100 million  and CBS                                                               
has provided $5 million in cash,  has bonded for $21 million, and                                                               
received $20.5  million in state funding  previously approved via                                                               
the AEA process.   The current funding request  is $28.5 million,                                                               
which will  fully satisfy  state funding, thus  CBS will  need to                                                               
bond an additional  $25 million.  Of the total  $100 million, CBS                                                               
will provide 51 percent, and this  request is for 49 percent from                                                               
the state.   She recapped  the CBS funding  plan:  CBS  has about                                                               
$42 million  available for  the studies,  engineering, licensing,                                                               
and the major  equipment, and which is anticipated  to last until                                                               
the beginning of construction in  mid-summer 2012; the balance of                                                               
funds  would be  spent  over the  construction  period ending  in                                                               
December 2014.   Additionally, approximately  $2 million  will be                                                               
spent  in tune-up  and  clean-up activities  in  2015-2016.   The                                                               
completion  of this  project will  complete the  Blue Lake  Hydro                                                               
facility, and  no other electric  projects, except  for long-term                                                               
development  needs, are  planned in  the next  10-15 years.   The                                                               
project has  undergone the  environmental work,  public hearings,                                                               
the  preliminary design  phase,  and  the geologic  investigation                                                               
activities, and the dam design has been approved.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.   CAMPBELL  reported   that   the   FERC  license   amendment                                                               
application was  submitted in November  2010, and is  expected to                                                               
be approved  by November  2011.  Construction  will begin  in the                                                               
summer  of  2012 with  project  completion  late  in 2014.    She                                                               
related  that the  current funding  request, matched  by the  CBS                                                               
bonding, will be used for  the construction phase of the project.                                                               
Upon  completion,   CBS  expects  the  current   retail  rate  of                                                               
approximately 9.5 cents  per kWh - with  little diesel generation                                                               
- will change.  The city  has reached its hydro production limits                                                               
and  will need  to add  supplemental diesel  later this  year and                                                               
subsequently until the Blue  Lake Hydroelectric Expansion Project                                                               
comes on line in 2015.   This project will displace approximately                                                               
2.3 million gallons of diesel per  year at a cost of $8.5 million                                                               
in current dollars,  as well as provide adequate  power to enable                                                               
economic  expansion.     Until  the  project   is  complete,  the                                                               
anticipated diesel cost is anticipated  at 36 cents per kWh which                                                               
could raise  the rate  to 20  cents or  more per  kWh.   With the                                                               
bonds sold, the debt service on  the existing hydro debt has been                                                               
paid and  the level of  debt service to  be assumed for  the Blue                                                               
Lake  expansion will  be comparable.   No  new personnel  will be                                                               
required  due to  the  expansion; in  fact,  CBS anticipates  the                                                               
rates after project completion will  be 10 percent or higher than                                                               
rates paid today - primarily  because of inflationary pressures -                                                               
which could  be around 12 cents  per kWh.  The  project fits very                                                               
well into  the system expansion without  substantial increases in                                                               
debt service  or operational costs.   A move  to diesel-generated                                                               
power  would  increase rates  to  residents  and will  discourage                                                               
economic  development.   Sitka  currently  uses approximately  99                                                               
percent renewable energy  and would like to stay that  way.  This                                                               
project  was selected  as  a priority  project  by the  Southeast                                                               
Conference,  AEA,  and  the  advisory Group  for  the  SEIRP,  in                                                               
addition to being Sitka's number  one priority for several years.                                                               
She said  the present  state funds  are administered  through AEA                                                               
and CBS  keeps AEA informed  of its  progress.  The  assigned AEA                                                               
project  manager  attends critical  meetings  with  FERC and  the                                                               
consultants, and  has visited the  site.  Ms.  Campbell concluded                                                               
that the requested  appropriation of $28.5 million,  added to the                                                               
existing appropriations of $20.5  million, totals $49 million, or                                                               
49 percent of  the overall current project  estimate, leaving CBS                                                               
to fund the remaining 51 percent of the project.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:42:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  referred to  the document  provided in                                                               
the   committee  packet   which   indicated   the  total   energy                                                               
requirements of Sitka  are currently being met by  80 percent oil                                                               
and  20 percent  hydro.   She inquired  as to  how those  figures                                                               
would change upon completion of the project.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:43:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  DRYDEN, System  Engineer, Electric  Department, City  and                                                               
Borough  of   Sitka,  clarified  those  figures   relate  to  the                                                               
community-wide  use  of  energy;  however,   CBS  is  99  percent                                                               
renewable energy  and after the  project would remain  99 percent                                                               
renewable  until pushed  again  to diesel  fuel  by rising  load.                                                               
Sitka currently generates about 20  percent of all the energy the                                                               
community needs.   In further response  to Representative Wilson,                                                               
he  stated that  about 99  percent  of the  electrical energy  is                                                               
generated by  hydro power, but  Sitka is pretty well  at capacity                                                               
and will  need diesel to  supplement the power, which  will raise                                                               
the cost  substantially.   Mr. Dryden  continued to  explain that                                                               
the load  growth seems inevitable.   Moreover, Sitka is  about 10                                                               
to 15  years away from  the development of  another hydroelectric                                                               
facility at Takatz Lake.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  appreciated the conundrum since  the legislature                                                               
is considering  hydro projects not  just to  produce electricity,                                                               
but to  handle the  load growth from  offsetting diesel  usage in                                                               
home heating.  He stated  that all of Alaska's communities intend                                                               
to  offset diesel.   He  expressed his  interest in  the projects                                                               
being put forward, recognizing that  the goal is renewable energy                                                               
offsetting  residential diesel  use,  as well  as electricity  to                                                               
operate lights and  computers.  He recapped  that the legislature                                                               
is  trying   to  help  communities   advance  whatever   type  of                                                               
alternative energy is available to them.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:46:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER referred  to the  CAPSIS request,  noting                                                               
that  the overall  project  cost  has increased.    He asked  for                                                               
clarification on the increase.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DRYDEN responded that the  project cost always changes as the                                                               
project is refined.   He explained that the  original estimate of                                                               
$60 million was a very preliminary  number.  Since the project is                                                               
currently  in  the final  dam  design  stage, the  cost  estimate                                                               
reflects all  of the specific  requirements of the project.   Mr.                                                               
Dryden  advised that  $100 million  reflects  the best  estimated                                                               
cost and does not mean that  the project changed in scope, but is                                                               
a refinement of the initial  estimate as the project went through                                                               
the design and investigation processes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:48:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT asked whether CBS  is fairly certain that it will                                                               
receive the federal funding request of $12.5 million.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CAMPBELL answered  that CBS  is fairly  certain it  will not                                                               
receive  this  funding.    She said  for  several  years  federal                                                               
requests  for assistance  have included  a federal  component and                                                               
CBS had hoped for three-way  partnership between city, state, and                                                               
federal governments.  However, she  indicated this has now become                                                               
unrealistic and  it is  more likely  that the  project will  be a                                                               
state and city project.  She  reiterated that CBS would match the                                                               
state's 49 percent with its 51 percent of funding.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:49:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT  understood  the  12 cent  per  kWh  rate  would                                                               
include the $12.5 million.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. CAMPBELL answered no.   She responded that the budget figures                                                               
presented  are expected  to be  borne by  CBS through  additional                                                               
bonding if no federal funding is received.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT then  surmised that  instead of  passing through                                                               
the  project cost  to  ratepayers, CBS  taxpayers  will fund  the                                                               
costs associated with the bonding debt.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:50:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DRYDEN related that the  utilities are an enterprise division                                                               
and stand alone;  therefore, no funds can change  hands between a                                                               
municipality and  an enterprise division.   This is "straight-up"                                                               
utility business  and although the  bond is co-signed by  CBS and                                                               
arranged for by the city,  the total debt service associated with                                                               
bonding is applied directly to  the utility rates.  The advantage                                                               
of  this particular  project is  that the  debt service  recently                                                               
ended  for the  Green  Lake  Project is  comparable  to the  debt                                                               
service  that CBS  will assume  with this  expansion.   Thus, the                                                               
cost to  the ratepayer is  about the  same.  He  anticipated that                                                               
increases  in other  costs would  likely push  up the  rate by  a                                                               
penny or so by 2015.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER noted  that  some of  these projects  are                                                               
being  touted  as  fulfilling  the state's  energy  policy.    He                                                               
pointed  out that  the  first principle  in  the policy  requires                                                               
energy  efficiency.   He  inquired  as  to  whether CBS  and  its                                                               
residents are working to use energy efficiently.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:52:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CAMPBELL  answered that  CBS has worked  hard to  become more                                                               
efficient by efforts  such as converting heating  systems to heat                                                               
pumps, and she  emphasized that nothing is as  efficient as hydro                                                               
power.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DRYDEN agreed  that CBS  and the  utility work  to encourage                                                               
heat  pumps  since because  they  can  use electrical  energy  to                                                               
amplify the effect of  displacing oil by a factor of  3 to 1 over                                                               
resistance heat.   The  utility has  been working  to restructure                                                               
its rates to  encourage the use of heat pumps  and discourage the                                                               
use  of electric  space  heaters.   He  further  stated that  the                                                               
utility  works  with  citizens  and  businesses  in  a  proactive                                                               
manner,  and  citizens'  groups   in  Sitka  have  been  "raising                                                               
awareness."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:54:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:55 p.m. to 3:04 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:05:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE  GRIFFITH, President,  Board  of  Directors, Alaska  Railbelt                                                               
Cooperative Transmission  and Electric Company  (ARCTEC); General                                                               
Manager,  Matanuska   Electric  Association  (MEA),   called  the                                                               
committees' attention  to a letter  in the committee  packet from                                                               
Rick Schikora,  Chairman of the  Board, introducing ARCTEC.   Mr.                                                               
Griffith stated the first ARCTEC  energy project is the Anchorage                                                               
to  Quartz  Creek  Transmission Maintenance  and  Repair  project                                                               
which is a  crucial transmission link that ties the  heart of the                                                               
Railbelt  to Bradley  Lake  Hydro.   The  project scope  includes                                                               
repairing  portions of  the  transmission line  that  are at  the                                                               
highest risk  of failure.  The  first segment would run  11 miles                                                               
from Anchorage  to Powerline  Pass and  12 miles  between Johnson                                                               
Pass trailhead and Ingram Creek.   He said this line is nearly 50                                                               
years old and  is wearing out.  Mr. Griffith  stressed that it is                                                               
crucial  to  get  Bradley  Lake  and Cooper  Lake  power  to  the                                                               
Railbelt because  all of the  utilities use the reserves  and the                                                               
benefits that those  two hydro projects provide.   He said ARCTEC                                                               
ranked this project as very near the top.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:08:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   PRUITT  asked   for   clarification   on  how   ARCTEC                                                               
prioritized  the  energy  projects  it chose  to  submit  to  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH  explained  that  the  ARCTEC  Board  of  Directors                                                               
reviewed studies  done by the Railbelt  Electrical Grid Authority                                                               
(REGA),  the  Railbelt  Integrated   Resource  Plan  (RIRP),  and                                                               
pertaining   to   the   proposed  Greater   Railbelt   Energy   &                                                               
Transmission  Company (GRETC),  and each  of the  projects listed                                                               
were  identified  as crucial  links  in  the provision  of  power                                                               
across the  Railbelt.  Furthermore,  the projects  were forwarded                                                               
by the  general managers  of the  participating utilities  to the                                                               
ARCTEC board,  which approved  them.   Mr. Griffith  advised that                                                               
the  projects represent  the position  of the  electric utilities                                                               
that serve nearly 75 percent of Alaska's population.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:09:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  observed that  ARCTEC has  identified a  list of                                                               
projects  it  deemed  as highest  priority  projects.    However,                                                               
individual   utilities   also   have   presented   projects   for                                                               
consideration.   He inquired as  to why  all of the  projects are                                                               
not proposed by ARCTEC.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:10:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH said  ARCTEC, as  a  recently formed  organization,                                                               
felt  putting  all  of  the projects  together  would  create  an                                                               
"overwhelming" need.  Thus the  board tried to parse out projects                                                               
that  were  most important  to  the  entire Railbelt  region  for                                                               
ARCTEC support.  If a utility  had a project that did not benefit                                                               
the  entire  Railbelt, the  project  could  be completed  by  the                                                               
individual  utility and  submitted separately,  or could  be held                                                               
over for  consideration by  ARCTEC next year.   This  process did                                                               
not  mean  a specific  project  not  on  the  list did  not  have                                                               
support; in fact, this list just  "bubbled out of the pot when we                                                               
turned the heat up," he said.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON  inquired as to whether  the $25 million                                                               
funding  request for  the  transmission line  repair  is for  the                                                               
total cost or if there is another source of funding.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH indicated  that is not the total cost.   He recalled                                                               
the last time he prepared an  estimate for repair to the line was                                                               
about 8-10  years ago,  and the  cost was $50  million.   He then                                                               
pointed out that  the $50 million is for one  single line; if the                                                               
project  is done  correctly it  would have  two lines  that would                                                               
cost  as  much   as  $200  million.    In   further  response  to                                                               
Representative  Wilson,  he  agreed  that  additional  funds  are                                                               
necessary,  and are  allotted for  maintenance  and operation  to                                                               
keep the  lines maintained,  given the fact  it is  a 50-year-old                                                               
line  that has  never  been  fully replaced.    The segment  that                                                               
brings  Bradley Lake  power north  is also  in various  stages of                                                               
disrepair.  He reiterated that ongoing funds will be needed.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:14:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  asked whether  significant maintenance                                                               
has been  done in  the past and  if money is  set aside  for that                                                               
purpose.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH  answered no.    He  deferred to  Chugach  Electric                                                               
Association (CEA)  but recalled  that as much  as CEA  desired to                                                               
set aside  funds, that little  working capital was  available for                                                               
maintenance due to a low rate of return.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON inquired  as to  the cost  delivered to                                                               
customers per kWh.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH estimated that  Matanuska Electric Association (MEA)                                                               
and Chugach  Electric Association  (CEA) deliver  electricity for                                                               
about  12  cents  per kWh;  Golden  Valley  Electric  Association                                                               
(GVEA)  is substantially  higher, and  he was  not familiar  with                                                               
Seward Electric  Department's rate.   He offered his  belief that                                                               
Municipal Light &  Power (ML&P) is about 30  percent less because                                                               
natural gas costs less.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:16:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON  assumed the cost to  ratepayers will go                                                               
up once the  repairs were completed to cover  the maintenance and                                                               
repair costs.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH expressed  ARCTEC's intent to keep  costs down which                                                               
is possible  with the  state's assistance.   The biggest  fear of                                                               
the utilities  in the  Railbelt has been  the rising  fuel costs.                                                               
Because  this is  an aging  system with  "huge generation  plants                                                               
coming online," the  system needs to be funded in  the same as is                                                               
infrastructure.   Electric lines  "provide[s] the grease  for our                                                               
economy," he said.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:17:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON stated  that other funding organizations                                                               
such  as  the Denali  Commission  are  starting to  require  that                                                               
maintenance  costs are  included.   She  cautioned entities  that                                                               
receive  state   funding  that   there  is   going  to   be  more                                                               
accountability required of them in terms of maintenance.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BRAD JANORSCHKE, Vice Chair, Board  of Directors, Alaska Railbelt                                                               
Cooperative Transmission  and Electric Company  (ARCTEC); General                                                               
Manager,  Homer Electric  Association, Inc.  (HEA), said  project                                                               
six,  which   is  the  Quartz  Creek   to  Soldotna  Transmission                                                               
Maintenance  and Repair,  is  similar to  the  first project  Mr.                                                               
Griffith  described.     He  acknowledged   that  the   issue  of                                                               
maintenance  is important;  however,  utilities struggle  because                                                               
Alaska is a big state  with population centers separated by great                                                               
distances.     For  example,  the  distance   between  the  Kenai                                                               
Peninsula and Anchorage does not lie  on a straight path since it                                                               
winds  through Cooper  Landing.   Homer Electric  Association has                                                               
put a significant amount of  money into the maintenance of lines,                                                               
particularly in the  mountainous east section of its  system.  He                                                               
noted that  HEA works  to first serve  local customers,  but will                                                               
put in  about $200 million of  its own funds over  the next three                                                               
years to  ensure that  the service on  the Kenai  Peninsula stays                                                               
reliable and  affordable.  It  becomes a financial  challenge for                                                               
HEA and other  utilities to not only accommodate  the local needs                                                               
of their system, but the public  lines between service areas.  He                                                               
pointed out that  most of the projects listed are  those that are                                                               
trying to get Bradley Lake  Hydro power and Kenai Peninsula power                                                               
tied  to  Southcentral Alaska.    Mr.  Janorschke said  that  the                                                               
utilities attempt  to address the  operation and  maintenance for                                                               
systems, but some areas are expensive.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTZ informed  that committees  that  CEA is  in a  similar                                                               
situation in that  its first priority was to  build new efficient                                                               
gas  turbines  to  save  money  on gas.    He  acknowledged  that                                                               
maintenance is  needed but has been  continually deferred because                                                               
CEA  has to  invest  over $250  million in  new  generation.   He                                                               
pointed  out  that  although  CEA  owns the  line,  the  line  is                                                               
critical infrastructure that allows  the Bradley Lake hydro power                                                               
to move north for  the benefit of GVEA, ML&P, and  CEA.  With the                                                               
natural gas constraints in Cook  Inlet, it is more important that                                                               
the  Bradley Lake  power moves  north.   He emphasized  that this                                                               
project is  overdue, needs to be  done, and funding will  be very                                                               
much appreciated.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:23:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  asked for clarification  on the  organization of                                                               
ARCTEC.   He  further asked  if  after projects  are funded,  the                                                               
utilities as  a whole will  incorporate a rate base  dedicated to                                                               
the operation and maintenance of upgraded lines and facilities.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  envisioned ARCTEC as  a united entity  to forward                                                               
large-scale renewable energy  projects - that are too  big for an                                                               
individual utility  to build  - for  the benefit  of each  of its                                                               
members.   Secondly,  ARCTEC recognizes  it must  focus on  large                                                               
projects that  are needed by  all, but that  do not "jump  on the                                                               
top of  our individual lists."   He  said he foresees  a regional                                                               
transmission organization  that will garner support  for projects                                                               
such  as the  tie-line  between Kenai  and  Anchorage, which  are                                                               
vitally  important  to the  entire  Railbelt.   He  stressed  the                                                               
benefit  ARCTEC brings  to strengthen  the utilities'  positions.                                                               
He discussed  ways to recoup  investments through  a cooperative;                                                               
for example, when HEA invests in  its lines and other parties use                                                               
them,  the parties  are  charged  a fee  to  spread  the cost  of                                                               
operation and  maintenance.   In addition, all  of the  rates are                                                               
reviewed  through  the  Regulatory Commission  of  Alaska  (RCA),                                                               
which sets  the methodology.   This is  the process by  which the                                                               
utilities recover any investments that are made.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:26:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  pointed out  that  the  legislature is  in  the                                                               
process of making significant investments  in these projects.  He                                                               
offered his belief  that the utilities would not  work to recover                                                               
the  costs paid  by  the  state on  projects  that  are owned  by                                                               
individual  utilities.   He  questioned  whether  a utility  will                                                               
depreciate  a   facility  the  state  has   invested  in  without                                                               
providing for  its maintenance.   He inquired  as to  whether the                                                               
maintenance of projects is the  responsibility of ARCTEC, the RCA                                                               
when  it  sets the  rates,  or  of  the  utility, and  asked  for                                                               
assurance  that  the  legislature  would not  be  approached  for                                                               
funding "when [the project] falls down."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  answered that through  the RCA's  methodology the                                                               
utilities  can  recover  all of  the  operating  and  maintenance                                                               
expenses as well as depreciation.  None of the utilities "pre-                                                                  
fund"  to replace  an  asset,  but must  borrow.    He related  a                                                               
scenario in  which HEA owns  a line  and invests $200  million in                                                               
the transmission  line and is  "borrowed out."   He characterized                                                               
it  as though  someone would  go to  the bank  but has  maxed out                                                               
their credit cards.  He would not  want to put the utility in the                                                               
position of doing so.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:29:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT asked whether the  RCA set regulations that limit                                                               
or  prevent  utilities  from  setting   aside  money  for  future                                                               
operations, facilities, or generating capacity.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH said,  "You're not  allowed to  do that.   If  it's                                                               
grant-funded, you don't get it."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT clarified  that his question was  whether the RCA                                                               
prevents a  utility from investing  in future  electrical utility                                                               
capital projects.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:30:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  JOHNSON,  General  Counsel,  Chugach  Electric  Association                                                               
(CEA), said  he served as  a commissioner  on the RCA  from 2003-                                                               
2009.  He explained that  nationwide standard regulatory practice                                                               
does  not   permit  a  utility   to  roll  into  the   rate  base                                                               
"contributed plant,"  which are grants  from the government.   He                                                               
agreed that an  explicit mechanism does not exist  to recover and                                                               
collect   operating   expense    from   ratepayers   for   future                                                               
maintenance.   Mr.  Johnson advised  that this  creates an  acute                                                               
problem in  many rural areas  where the legislature has  funded a                                                               
utility  water  and  sewer  plant   with  grant  money,  and  the                                                               
mechanism does not exist to recover  the costs.  However, the RCA                                                               
was created  by the legislature  and has  the ability to  step in                                                               
and change the rules, and he reiterated that this is a long-                                                                    
standing regulatory problem that could benefit from a solution.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:32:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  understood the legislature is  creating a future                                                               
problem  by not  allowing utilities  to replace  facilities on  a                                                               
going-forward basis.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:32:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON opined the legislature  did not intend to create this                                                               
problem, but  the regulatory practice  in Alaska does  not permit                                                               
this.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:33:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  pointed out the  effect of these  limitations on                                                               
utilities.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.   WILSON  emphasized   that  the   problem  is                                                               
compounded  when  the  state  has  less money  to  spend  on  its                                                               
citizens.  She  said she was alarmed by this  situation and urged                                                               
action during the next legislative  session so that utilities can                                                               
"charge  your ratepayers  ... so  that  you know  you can  always                                                               
maintain and that you have money ...."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  observed this issue greatly  contributes to problems                                                               
between constituents, the utilities, and the RCA.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT pledged the committee's work on this issue.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:37:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  asked  whether the  transmission  lines                                                               
from  Anchorage to  Quartz Creek  are new  lines with  additional                                                               
capacity.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS said  the transmission lines will be  upgraded from 115                                                               
volts to 138  volts in order to provide more  security for higher                                                               
voltages.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:38:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN surmised  this project  will not  create                                                               
redundancy,  but will  keep the  current lines  producing without                                                               
worry of failure.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS reiterated that a portion  of the line is 50 years old;                                                               
in  2007,  CEA  performed  aerial   and  field  inspections  that                                                               
revealed  two of  the seven  segments are  critically in  need of                                                               
repair.  The requested funding is  for repair to the two critical                                                               
segments.   If further work  can be delayed until  2015-2020, the                                                               
RCA  may allow  CEA to  recover "prudent  expenditures," and  the                                                               
utility  would pay  for the  additional  line upgrades;  however,                                                               
these lines have needed replacement  for ten years.  He concluded                                                               
that the most optimum investment for  the utility right now is to                                                               
reduce the cost of gas, which has taken up its line of credit.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:41:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK   recalled  8-10  years  ago   some  of  the                                                               
transmission line was replaced.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTS acknowledged  the line  was  replaced along  Turnagain                                                               
Arm.   In further  response to Representative  Tuck, he  said the                                                               
only  sections  that have  been  done  are along  Turnagain  Arm,                                                               
because  the   other  sections  are   difficult  to   access,  so                                                               
replacements are made in a major project, not pole by pole.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:43:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  agreed sections  of the line  look old.   He                                                               
opined  there  is  a nationwide  concentration  on  building  new                                                               
plants to meet the demand  for more power, but transmission lines                                                               
are  neglected   because  they  do  not   reduce  utility  rates.                                                               
Representative Tuck  said it is  important for the state  to have                                                               
the ability  to fund  projects in the  future, and  suggested the                                                               
state provide -  not grants - but 1-2  percent low-interest loans                                                               
which would provide  seed money and "pay-back" to the  state.  He                                                               
pointed out  that long-term loans  are not always  available from                                                               
financial  institutions,  but  historically, the  government  has                                                               
provided them.   He cautioned that the state will  not be able to                                                               
sustain this level of funding for projects in the future.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  opined more  understanding of  the legislature's                                                               
role is needed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:48:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  turned to Battle Creek  Diversion Project, which                                                               
he  explained  would  add additional  capacity  to  Bradley  Lake                                                               
Hydroelectric.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  agreed that the  Battle Creek  Diversion Project,                                                               
funding  request  would increase  the  capacity  of Bradley  Lake                                                               
Hydro.   Bradley Lake Hydro  is operated and maintained  by Homer                                                               
Electric Association (HEA) and has  a maximum output of about 120                                                               
MW, producing power  at a cost of  about 4.2 cents.   The rate is                                                               
extremely attractive.   However,  one drawback  is that  when the                                                               
facility is operated  at its highest capacity it will  run out of                                                               
fuel in  about four  months.   Thus, it does  not operate  at its                                                               
highest  and cheapest  capacity and  is  limited to  usage for  a                                                               
peaking unit  but cannot  use the  full capacity  and efficiency.                                                               
Thus, the  investment for the  120 MW capacity benefits  at about                                                               
the  60 MW  level.    The Battle  Creek  Diversion project  would                                                               
divert some  water from  Battle Creek into  Bradley Lake,  and at                                                               
4.2 cents and  represents the cheapest option in  the Railbelt to                                                               
add fuel for new generation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:50:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.   WILSON  asked   for  the  location   of  the                                                               
diversion.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE answered that it is pretty close.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:51:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS,  in response to  Representative Saddler,  answered the                                                               
total  cost of  the project  is  estimated to  be $3l.5  million.                                                               
Other  funding sources  are this  grant and  bonds issued  by the                                                               
utilities.  Construction is scheduled  for five to ten years, and                                                               
the  pay-back period  would depend  on  future gas  prices.   The                                                               
project  is at  the preliminary  concept level,  without detailed                                                               
design or permits,  and the state money would be  used for design                                                               
and construction.  Finally, the project has been vetted by AEA.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:53:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT   asked  whether   ARCTEC  "could   handle"  the                                                               
shortfall  between  the  $20  million  requested  and  the  $15.5                                                               
million in the budget.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS advised  the funding plan is for 50  percent funding by                                                               
grant and the six utilities would seek bonding for the balance.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:53:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON questioned the  effect to the project of                                                               
the limitation on the state's capital investment to 50 percent.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS  said based on  what is  known today, the  project will                                                               
cost $31.5  million and the intent  is to get 50  percent funding                                                               
from the state.  If the  estimated cost changes, the grant amount                                                               
may  change.   However, the  project has  economic value  and the                                                               
utilities are highly motivated to complete the project.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:55:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT restated the question.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.   FOUTS,  returning   to  the   Anchorage  to   Quartz  Creek                                                               
Transmission  Maintenance  and Repair,  said  the  request is  to                                                               
rebuild two  segments of line  for $25  million.  The  other five                                                               
segments of line will be addressed in the future.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:57:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON was unsure  whether grant recipients are                                                               
aware of the 50 percent limitation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH  affirmed  that  the utilities  are  aware  of  the                                                               
limitation.  He said,  "No way we could afford to  do that on all                                                               
of these."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON stated, "Some  of us would like  to get                                                               
rid of  that wording, and  so we're  just wanting on  the record,                                                               
your concerns."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  confirmed that  Battle Creek  Diversion is  a 50                                                               
percent to 50  percent investment, but Anchorage  to Quartz Creek                                                               
Project is 100  percent state funding.  He  requested that ARCTEC                                                               
specify which proposals are 50 percent matches.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTS answered  that  the $25  million  Anchorage to  Quartz                                                               
Creek  request  is  for  100  percent grant  funding  as  it's  a                                                               
transmission line  that serves the  entire Railbelt.   The Battle                                                               
Creek Diversion  project was  a 50 percent  request and  the Cook                                                               
Inlet Gas Gathering System Remodel is a 100 percent request.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:59:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN FOUTZ, Utility Manager, City  of Seward, related that Seward                                                               
has spent  "close to 50 percent"  funding on the Dave's  Creek to                                                               
Seward Transmission  Line Completion.  However,  he asked whether                                                               
the qualifying funds were "previous funds or future funds."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT   referred  to  page  99,   lines  18-19,  which                                                               
read,"50%  of the  total investment  required  to fully  complete                                                               
each project."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTZ  confirmed the City of  Seward has spent 50  percent of                                                               
the required matching funds.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:00:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE advised that the  Girdwood and Sterling Substation                                                               
Improvement  is  a  request  for  100  percent  of  the  cost  of                                                               
components.   The projects  are larger but  this component  is to                                                               
put in  a ring bus  which would allow them  to switch on  and off                                                               
the   transmission  line   without  interrupting   the  flow   of                                                               
electrons.  In further response  to Co-Chair Pruitt, with respect                                                               
to  the request  for the  Quartz Creek  to Soldotna  Transmission                                                               
Maintenance and Repair  project, he clarified the  request is for                                                               
100 percent  of the cost  of upgrading a  section of the  line to                                                               
which ARCTEC has already made improvements.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS  explained the Seward  Power Plant  Integration request                                                               
for $4 million, which is 50 percent of the cost.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH  said the  Soldotna  to  Quartz Creek  Transmission                                                               
Study Design  and Permitting  request is for  100 percent  of the                                                               
design function,  but not of  the whole project, and  the Teeland                                                               
to Healy  Substation Improvements and  Repair request is  for 100                                                               
percent of the completion of the project.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH   added  that  the  Teeland   to  Healy  substation                                                               
improvements and repair  project request for $5  million would be                                                               
in  addition to  a prior  related project  that was  paid by  the                                                               
state, which he thought was funded at $10 million.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:01:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON explained  the quandary  since Ms.  Fisher-Goad,                                                               
AEA, asked for  clarification on the language that  requires a 50                                                               
percent state  investment and related  confusion on  whether this                                                               
percentage  related to  segment cost  or total  cost.   He agreed                                                               
legislators are unsure of exactly  what the wording means and the                                                               
final outcome on clarification.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT said he understood.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:02:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  returned to  the Battle  Creek Diversion,                                                               
and asked whether AEA assisted in the conceptual design.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.   GRIFFITH   answered   yes.     In   further   response   to                                                               
Representative  Saddler, he  said  he was  not  aware of  whether                                                               
state leases or permits were received.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:03:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS explained  the Cook Inlet Gas  Gathering System Remodel                                                               
affects  the pipes  in  Cook  Inlet that  serve  Anchorage.   The                                                               
current pipelines run  from Kenai to Anchorage and  from the west                                                               
side of Cook Inlet to Kenai.   Currently, there is not a means to                                                               
physically  get  gas  from the  Kenai  to  the  Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Valley.  This worked fine for  30 years when gas supplies were on                                                               
the west  side of Cook Inlet,  but now all the  gas production is                                                               
headed  toward the  east side  so it  would be  costly, up  to $2                                                               
million to  do so.   This $2  million project would  reduce check                                                               
values and compression  and move gas on the west  side, similar a                                                               
transmission  structure.   Over the  past several  years the  gas                                                               
burned  at power  plans was  bundled  with transportation  costs.                                                               
Now  that the  Cook  Inlet  gas supply  has  diminished over  the                                                               
years, the producers  are willing to produce the  gas but require                                                               
transportation  be arranged.   This  project has  been identified                                                               
for about five years but needs  to be done next year.  Currently,                                                               
the project  is in the design  and permit phases which  should be                                                               
completed  by  October.   The  total  project  cost would  be  $2                                                               
million.   The funding sources  are utilities,  Chugach Electric,                                                               
Alaska Municipal Light & Power  (AML&P), and Enstar.  The project                                                               
would  be completed  in  one  year.   He  envisioned a  permanent                                                               
compression fix  in the future would  require additional funding.                                                               
The  cost,  if   not  grant  funded,  would   be  recovered  from                                                               
ratepayers.   He  said the  purpose is  to provide  stability and                                                               
reliability of  natural gas  from Cook  Inlet.   The AEA  has not                                                               
been  involved in  this project,  which has  been limited  to the                                                               
three  utilities  that  need  natural  gas  delivered  that  have                                                               
supported the project.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:06:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   SEATON   asked   whether   remodel   referred   to   a                                                               
reconfiguration which would be a  construction project or whether                                                               
it would be a study on how to perform the project.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTS  explained that the  project would involve  replacing a                                                               
one-way  valve  with  a  two-way  valve  and  to  install  rental                                                               
compression  to  boost  up  pressure   on  the  line  to  prevent                                                               
disturbances to other users on  the pipeline.  Thus, this project                                                               
would be to upgrade the pipeline to make it bi-directional.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:07:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  related  his  understanding  that  this                                                               
project  would  increase access  to  gas  for Anchorage  and  the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna Valley.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTS   answered  yes.     He  related  that   if  Anchorage                                                               
experiences really cold weather  and additional natural gas could                                                               
not be  shipped via  the Kenai pipelines  to Anchorage,  the only                                                               
gas available  would be from  two primary natural gas  fields via                                                               
pipelines and  the two-way valve  could be completed  by October.                                                               
In further  response to Representative  Petersen, he  agreed that                                                               
this  project   would  create  redundancy  and   security  during                                                               
extremely cold weather.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  inquired  as  to whether  the  natural  gas                                                               
storage on the Kenai would help alleviate the issue.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTS answered  that the  storage  is located  on the  Kenai                                                               
Peninsula.  He said one way  to transport the gas is via existing                                                               
lines  but gas  storage would  not  solve the  problem since  the                                                               
natural  gas   still  must   travel  across   Cook  Inlet.     He                                                               
characterized this as a gas transportation problem.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked whether this  project was part  of the                                                               
Railbelt Integrated Resource Plan.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTS  said he  thought  that  plan  focused mostly  on  the                                                               
electric issues.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  FOUTZ,  Utility  Manager, City  of  Seward,  explained  the                                                               
Dave's  Creek  to  Seward  Transmission   Line  Completion.    He                                                               
detailed  that  Seward  receives   power  from  Chugach  Electric                                                               
through a  single line that runs  from Anchorage to Seward.   The                                                               
line has been  updated and repaired.  The line  was upgraded from                                                               
69 to 115 kV.   That project was never completed  and falls a few                                                               
blocks short  of the  substation.  This  funding of  $1.5 million                                                               
would bring upgrade the line to  the substation.  He answered the                                                               
general  questions,  noting the  project  has  local support  and                                                               
several  resolutions have  been  passed by  the  city council  in                                                               
support of the project.  In  2010, the City of Seward spent $1.27                                                               
million on  upgrading, rerouting  and repairing  the transmission                                                               
line.    He noted  that  nearly  $2  million  has been  spent  on                                                               
repairing the line.  He  reviewed funding sources such that state                                                               
and  federal  funds started  the  project  and bonding  and  city                                                               
funding has since  been utilized.  The ARCTEC  funding request of                                                               
$1.5 million  would complete the  project this year.   The entire                                                               
line from  Dave's Creek  to Seward  is 40 miles  and less  than a                                                               
mile  remains.   If the  rates  were allocated  to ratepayers  it                                                               
would have happened thirty years  ago so he was uncertain whether                                                               
that  occurred.   The local  population is  relatively small  and                                                               
could not  absorb the additional  costs.  The project  was vetted                                                               
by  the AEA  and  listed in  the  RIRP  but not  one  of the  top                                                               
priorities.   With respect to  the 50 percent matching  funds, in                                                               
2010  the  City  of  Seward  spent  $1.27  million  to  maintain,                                                               
upgrade, and repair the line.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:15:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked for  clarification on whether this                                                               
project would add a few more blocks of access to electricity.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTZ answered  that thirty years ago the  process to upgrade                                                               
the transmission  line from 69  to 115  kV.  Currently,  the line                                                               
transmits  power but  not to  the highest  capacity.   In further                                                               
response to  Representative P. Wilson,  this project  would allow                                                               
for  a higher  voltage, not  additional distribution  line.   The                                                               
transmission line  transmits power from  point "A" to  point "B."                                                               
The distribution lines  would distribute power from  point "B" to                                                               
the  residential  home.   More  specifically,  the project  takes                                                               
power from Anchorage to Seward  at a higher voltage, which offers                                                               
benefits.  The  biggest benefit is obtained since  the larger the                                                               
voltage capacity the lower the line loss, he said.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK commented that he  worked for Norcon, Inc. in                                                               
1992, when the 115 kV transmission  line was built.  He related a                                                               
scenario that  illustrated the problems  with some  residents who                                                               
objected to the line.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER inquired as to  whether the 50 percent cap                                                               
would limit the state to  providing only $1.27 million since that                                                               
is the amount the City of Seward contributed as matching funds.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:18:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTZ  agreed that an  additional $130,000 to reach  the 2010                                                               
match.   He was unsure  of how  the match would  be appropriated.                                                               
He expressed  confidence that reviewing expenses  over the thirty                                                               
years  of   the  project   expenditures  would   reach  $130,000.                                                               
Additionally,   the  City   of   Seward   has  right-of-way   and                                                               
maintenance issues to contend with so  the city should be able to                                                               
reach its matching funds this year.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER acknowledged that  the legislature is also                                                               
waiting  to see  how the  match would  work.   He clarified  this                                                               
project provides the  last upgrade to the  transmission line, not                                                               
that a gap exists in the transmission line.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK  provided   an  example  for  Representative                                                               
Wilson to further clarify the upgrade.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:20:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  reviewed the $4  million request for  funding for                                                               
the Girdwood and Sterling Substation  Improvements.  This project                                                               
would  entail  splitting  the  funding into  two  segments:    $2                                                               
million for Girdwood  and $2 million for Sterling.   The Sterling                                                               
funding would  reduce voltage for distribution  in substations to                                                               
supply  the  power to  communities.    One  method  is to  use  a                                                               
doughnut type of connection, which  would allow the power to come                                                               
into  the  doughnut  and  out  the other  side.    This  type  of                                                               
distribution allows  a "T" anywhere  along the doughnut  to serve                                                               
the substation.   The advantage to this type of  connection is it                                                               
allows work  to be done  to the substation without  disruption of                                                               
power.  Additionally,  if any issue arises on either  side of the                                                               
ring  or  doughnut   the  line  can  be   serviced  with  minimal                                                               
disruption.     Thus,   this   project   would  provide   greater                                                               
reliability.     Homer  Electric  Association,  Inc.   (HEA)  has                                                               
currently been  working to design the  Sterling substation, which                                                               
should be completed  next year.  The design work  is using a "T."                                                               
He recalled discussions with other  utilities that used a "T" and                                                               
regret not using  the ring or doughnut configuration  since it is                                                               
more  expensive to  convert later.    He agreed  the ring  design                                                               
should be done but  HEA cannot afford to do so at  this time.  He                                                               
related  his understanding  that  Girdwood is  expanding and  are                                                               
tying into  the same line.   He  reiterated that this  project is                                                               
needed for reliability.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:23:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SADDLER  asked   him  to   address  the   listed                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JANORSCHKE related  the total  cost  is $4  million for  the                                                               
improvement.     He  said  the  Sterling   substation  costs  are                                                               
estimated  at  $6  million  excluding  the  improvement.    After                                                               
conferring, he  agreed the  costs at  Girdwood would  be similar.                                                               
Without the  funding sources, the HEA  would not be able  to make                                                               
the ring  configuration at this  time.   He related that  all the                                                               
Railbelt  utilities have  been unanimous  in their  support.   He                                                               
restated that the  Sterling project is in the  design phase, that                                                               
it would  move to civil  engineering phase during before  the end                                                               
of this  construction season.   He anticipated  that it  would be                                                               
completed  and  online  by  the next  construction  season.    In                                                               
further response to Representative  Saddler, he indicated the AEA                                                               
has not been involved so far.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:25:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   JANORSCHKE   outlined   the  Quartz   Creek   to   Soldotna                                                               
Transmission  Maintenance and  Repair.   He  explained that  this                                                               
project  would  be  similar  to the  Quartz  Creek  to  Anchorage                                                               
project.     He   indicated  this   particular  section   of  the                                                               
transmission line  is 50  years old  and traverses  through Kenai                                                               
Wildlife Refuge.   This  has created  some challenges  to conduct                                                               
the ongoing  maintenance program  since the  needs of  the refuge                                                               
and utility are appropriate but  different.  He related that from                                                               
a utility's  perspective a 100-foot  clear cut is  preferable but                                                               
that approach understandably  does not work in the  refuge.  This                                                               
project  would  complete  the  last  section  of  the  utilities'                                                               
maintenance program on the east side  of the Kenai Peninsula.  He                                                               
identified  that   some  soggy  conditions  exist   so  work  has                                                               
typically  been  conducted during  the  late  winter after  heavy                                                               
freezes using snow  roads.  The work also would  require off road                                                               
rigs and helicopters for access, which  is very costly.  He noted                                                               
that the  current rate  for helicopters is  $1,000 to  $1,200 per                                                               
hour.    Thus far  all  the  funding  has  been provided  by  the                                                               
utilities,  he stated.   The  utilities' costs  will be  borne by                                                               
users and participants including all  Railbelt utilities.  In the                                                               
event this  project does  not receive  funding the  project could                                                               
likely be  funded in-house, but it  would need to be  done over a                                                               
longer  timeframe.    The Railbelt  utilities  all  support  this                                                               
project since Bradley  Lake power cannot be  transmitted from the                                                               
Kenai Peninsula if the line goes down.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:27:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  inquired as  to whether  100-foot wide                                                               
breaks would be sufficient for firebreak.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE answered that there  is not any guarantees but the                                                               
100-foot firebreaks  improve fire  protection and  provides quick                                                               
access.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:29:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTZ reviewed  the Seward  Power Plant  Integration project                                                               
for $4 million.  He explained  that the City of Seward has diesel                                                               
fuel  back up  generation.    The city  has  six generators  that                                                               
basically resemble  the ones  on World War  II submarines.   Each                                                               
generator  provides 2.5  MW  for a  total capacity  of  15 MW  of                                                               
power.  He  explained that Seward's maximum load is  10 MW so the                                                               
six generators provide  an "n minus 2" capability.   Seward could                                                               
experience  maintenance issues  with  two of  its generators  yet                                                               
still maintain  the load.  He  described the benefit of  having 5                                                               
additional MW  is that  it would  provide power  during emergency                                                               
situations  to  "push power  up  the  line"  to other  areas  not                                                               
normally served such as Moose  Pass and Cooper Landing, which are                                                               
served by  Chugach Electric  Association (CEA).   Two  years ago,                                                               
the  City of  Seward  initiated a  project  to increase  Seward's                                                               
capacity  by adding  two  generators.   He  said  when he  became                                                               
utility manager  that he  reviewed the project  to "get  the most                                                               
bang  for the  buck."   This  project would  provide a  full-size                                                               
building to  house four  generators and switch  gear for  two new                                                               
generators.    This  $4  million   project  would  move  the  two                                                               
additional  generators to  a new  building and  upgrade switching                                                               
components for  all six  generators.  The  new switch  gear would                                                               
allow  the utility  to bring  generators  on-line quicker  during                                                               
emergency situations  in the event  of a blackout,  avalanche, or                                                               
mid-winter natural gas shortage situation.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:32:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK inquired  as to  how  long it  takes to  get                                                               
generators up during a power outage.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTZ  answered that it  takes up to  two hours.   In further                                                               
response to  Representative Tuck,  he responded the  intent would                                                               
be to  have both manual  and automatic switch gear  for different                                                               
purposes.   The facility  primarily provides  back-up generation.                                                               
The utility  needs manual  capabilities for  emergency situations                                                               
to manually  turn on  the generators.   In  the event  the entire                                                               
Railbelt  needs additional  generation the  utility would  prefer                                                               
automatic  switches  to  allow  CEA to  rely  on  the  additional                                                               
generation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOUTZ related  significant local  support including  several                                                               
City  Council resolutions.   The  City  of Seward  bonded for  $6                                                               
million for this project as well  as $2 million of grant funding.                                                               
The  utility has  spent  $7.2 million  on the  project.   The  $4                                                               
million funding  would complete Phase  I as  well as Phase  II of                                                               
this project.   Phase  II would provide  an office  warehouse on-                                                               
site  to  store  equipment  to provide  the  benefits  of  having                                                               
materials on-site.   He related  that the City of  Seward funding                                                               
over  the  next  five  years  includes  some  small  construction                                                               
projects for  the Seward Power Plant  Integration that previously                                                               
was phased out based on funding  constraints.  The City of Seward                                                               
anticipates  the project  would  be completed  within five  years                                                               
with this funding approved.   The project consists of two phases:                                                               
Phase  I,  the generation  building,  and  Phase II,  the  office                                                               
warehouse.  The cost of bonding  has been passed on to ratepayers                                                               
and  he was  unsure  of  whether grant  funds  already paid  were                                                               
passed on or  not.  He clarified  that the City of  Seward is not                                                               
funded  by  the  Regulatory  Commission  of  Alaska  (RCA).    In                                                               
response  to Representative  Saddler, he  offered his  belief the                                                               
source of the grant was state funds.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  related  his  understanding that  the  City  of                                                               
Seward received  a $2 million  state grant for  backup generators                                                               
two years ago.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:37:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOUTZ acknowledged that the  City of Seward bonded $6 million                                                               
and received  an additional $2  million state grant.   He related                                                               
that the project was included  in in Railbelt Integrated Resource                                                               
Plan (RIRP) but is assumed to  be completed since the project was                                                               
under construction  at the time  the AEA  prepared its RIRP.   He                                                               
identified that  the $6 million  in bonding meets the  50 percent                                                               
matching fund requirement.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.   JANORSCHKE   reviewed   the  Soldotna   to   Quartz   Creek                                                               
Transmission  Study Design  and Permitting  project.   He related                                                               
this project as  similar to one discussed yesterday.   He pointed                                                               
out that two  transmission lines exist, one higher  and one lower                                                               
voltage, from Soldotna  to Nikiski.  When the lines  are of equal                                                               
voltage it  provides redundancy, he  said.  He said  this project                                                               
will upgrade an existing line,  which is important in order avoid                                                               
instances in  which the  higher line  goes offline  and transfers                                                               
voltage to  the lower voltage  line that cannot handle  the load.                                                               
He advised that  the only scenario to provide  redundancy is when                                                               
the higher  voltage line can  be reduced  to the point  the lower                                                               
voltage line can handle the load  to allow for maintenance.  This                                                               
project would  provide a study,  preliminary design,  and initial                                                               
permitting to  convert a transmission  line between  Soldotna and                                                               
Quartz Creek substations from 69 kV  to 115 kV.  He admitted this                                                               
project presents  challenges since  it crosses  the refuge.   The                                                               
right-of-way currently  has been rated for  the 69 kV line.   The                                                               
funds  would be  for  analysis and  review,  routing and  design.                                                               
Additionally,   this  project   would   result  in   a  54   mile                                                               
transmission line,  noting the terrain worsens  with the distance                                                               
from the office.   He stated that the average  cost is $1 million                                                               
per mile, which he believes represents a reasonable cost.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:42:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON asked whether  converting from a  69 kV                                                               
to 115 kV line requires a wider right-of-way.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JANORSCHKE  answered that  right-of-way  costs  can vary  in                                                               
regions.   He identified  the project's  location as  adjacent to                                                               
the  Sterling Highway  so as  areas are  cleared out  it attracts                                                               
moose, which pose safety issues for motorists.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON clarified her question.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE stated that the  right-of-way permit would need to                                                               
be modified  to increase the limit  of voltage from 69  kV to 115                                                               
kV.   Once that is  addressed, the next  step is to  determine if                                                               
the  existing  right-of-way can  be  widened  to accommodate  the                                                               
higher  voltage  and  provide additional  safety  for  electrical                                                               
conduction.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:44:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  inquired as  to whether  an existing  115 kV                                                               
line  exists or  if both  a 69  kV and  115 kV  transmission line                                                               
would exist.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE responded  that currently a 69 kV and  115 kV line                                                               
exist as parallel  lines for most of the route.   He related that                                                               
the lower voltage  line is essentially useless 98  percent of the                                                               
time so  to obtain any value  the voltage needs to  be increased.                                                               
In  further response  to Representative  Tuck,  he explained  the                                                               
differences between  this project, item  number 8 on page  4, and                                                               
item  number  6   on  page  3,  the  Quartz   Creek  to  Soldotna                                                               
Transmission  maintenance  repair.    He said  that  the  project                                                               
listed as item  number 6 would provide maintenance  and repair to                                                               
the 115 kV  line.  The existing 69 kV  aging transmission line is                                                               
in "horrible" shape, he said.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  asked if  the  design  and permitting  were                                                               
complete  whether  it would  be  cheaper  to perform  both  these                                                               
functions at the same time.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JANORSCHKE  disagreed.    He  identified  the  projects  are                                                               
distinctly two separate  projects.  The Soldotna  to Quartz Creek                                                               
Transmission Study Design and Permitting  project would have some                                                               
field  work  but  not  any heavy  equipment  but  rather  working                                                               
through  the legal  permitting process  and performing  the civil                                                               
engineering to  design the replacement  for the  69 kV line.   He                                                               
explained the  115 kV  transmission line is  limited to  the east                                                               
side  of that  section towards  Quartz Creek  at Cooper  Landing.                                                               
That  project would  entail heavy  equipment  and helicopters  to                                                               
replace poles and cross arms on  the 115 kV transmission line. In                                                               
further  response to  Representative  Tuck, he  advised they  are                                                               
adjacent lines with two separate  easements with a grove of trees                                                               
ranging from 10 to 30 feet.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:48:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK clarified his  question, asking if the design                                                               
and permitting was completed, whether  it would be cost effective                                                               
to perform the construction  simultaneously since the helicopters                                                               
could be used on both adjacent lines.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  responded that the  proposed project  entails the                                                               
54 mile length of the line.   The previous $10 million focused on                                                               
the eastern section  of the transmission lines,  but this project                                                               
covers the entire line.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:49:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER related  his  understanding that  project                                                               
number 8 would study  design work to upgrade the 69  kV line.  He                                                               
asked for the relationship between the two projects.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JANORSCHKE  answered  that  the 115  kV  line  provides  the                                                               
primary tie  between Bradley Lake  and HEA and CEA  facilities on                                                               
the Kenai Peninsula  and Anchorage.  Project number  8 would work                                                               
to  build  redundancy  between  that   tie  line  from  Kenai  to                                                               
Anchorage.   In  further response  to Representative  Saddler, he                                                               
indicated that  the estimate is  $750,000 to $1 million  per mile                                                               
for design since an estimate has not been finalized.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:50:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  anticipated that funding  may be requested  in a                                                               
future project.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:51:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  inquired as  to whether  parallel redundancy                                                               
exists  from Anchorage  to  Golden Valley  or  to the  Matanuska-                                                               
Susitna Valley.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JANORSCHKE clarified  that  redundancy does  not exist  from                                                               
Quartz Creek to Anchorage.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:51:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH  system explained that Golden  Valley Association is                                                               
looped and redundant from plant 2  in Anchorage to Willow.  North                                                               
of Willow the line is a single 138  kV line to Healy built to 345                                                               
kV  standards  and  dual  lines  from Healy  to  Fairbanks.    He                                                               
recalled that  the funding source  was Railbelt Energy  Fund from                                                               
the old Susitna project that built  the second line from Healy to                                                               
Fairbanks.   He further  recalled that  Anchorage's share  is the                                                               
$67 million in the governor's budget for the Susitna project.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  inquired as  to  whether  this is  ARCTEC's                                                               
project, but it is not  going through the CAPSYS program process,                                                               
but rather through the governor's budget process.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH related  that the  $5  million for  the Teeland  to                                                               
Healy Substation Improvements and  Repair would provide repair of                                                               
the  three static  systems located  at Teeland,  Gold Creek,  and                                                               
Healy.   These  static systems  ensure the  ability to  reach the                                                               
electrical  transfer  capacity  of  approximately  75  MW.    The                                                               
components were installed 25-30 years  ago and some are no longer                                                               
manufactured.   The  electronics need  to be  fixed or  replaced.                                                               
This  project started  7-8 years  ago  with a  $10 million  state                                                               
grant.  The GVA does not  have sufficient funding to complete the                                                               
project.  He  said the $5 million will complete  the project that                                                               
previously was funded with $10 million in state grants.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:55:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  asked whether  the $5  million request  would be                                                               
sufficient or if  additional funding would be  needed to complete                                                               
the project.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH answered that this  would complete the project.  The                                                               
prior funding was disbursed to  the Municipality of Anchorage and                                                               
AEL&P is currently managing the project.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:56:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  him   to  identify  any  previous                                                               
funding.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH explained  that about $8 million of  the $10 million                                                               
funding was expended on the  project and the remaining $2 million                                                               
covered  fees  so insufficient  funding  exists  to complete  the                                                               
project.    In further  response  to  Representative Saddler,  he                                                               
related  his understanding  that in  about 2004  or 2005  the $10                                                               
million  funding was  secured.   The  state funding  is the  only                                                               
funding  sources.    He  agreed  $5  million  will  complete  the                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:57:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT  inquired as  to  whether  $10 million  was  the                                                               
original estimate for the complete project.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH  answered that the  shortfall was due  to unexpected                                                               
expenses.   Once  the  work  began they  discovered  some of  the                                                               
components were outdated.  He  confirmed that the $5 million will                                                               
complete the project.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:58:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH, in response to  Representative Tuck, explained that                                                               
the  substation at  Teeland  is  owned by  CEA  but contains  MEA                                                               
components,  the Douglas  substation  is owned  by  AEA with  MEA                                                               
components, and  the Gold Hill  substation is  owned by AEA.   In                                                               
further  response to  Representative  Tuck, he  agreed all  three                                                               
components  and the  static bar  compensators in  the substations                                                               
are part of the project.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK inquired as to  why this project is not being                                                               
presented by AEA since it owns two of the facilities.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:59:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH clarified  that the  original $10  million proposal                                                               
was an  AEA project which was  transferred to the MOA  and Alaska                                                               
Electric  Light  &  Power  (AEL&P).     The  AEL&P  advised  that                                                               
additional funds would be required.   He agreed it is technically                                                               
AEA's equipment since it ties into their intertie.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  noted there  are many projects  to consider.   He                                                               
stated  utilities  must  work together  to  continue  to  provide                                                               
reliable service given  the aging systems.  He  was uncertain how                                                               
utilities  could  continue  to provide  services  without  making                                                               
these  improvements.    He  related that  most  issues  are  with                                                               
transmission systems.  He predicted  that utilities will struggle                                                               
to get  geothermal, hydroelectric and  wind power on the  grid so                                                               
integrating renewable sources will continue to be challenging.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked for projections of  what lies ahead                                                               
in the next five years after funding these projects.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRIFFITH offered  his belief  that moving  forward with  the                                                               
Susitna project  will require a huge  investment in transmission.                                                               
The biggest issue  the utilities face today is  the fuel problem.                                                               
Anything that improves the transmission  system reduces costs for                                                               
everyone in the Railbelt.   The issues raised today represent the                                                               
key  issues   which  ARCTEC   will  review.     He   agreed  with                                                               
Representative P.  Wilson that  Alaska cannot  afford to  run the                                                               
systems needed to  operate the economy today.   He concluded that                                                               
ARCTEC will  review the  issues during the  interim and  hopes to                                                               
come back with suggestions next session.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT thanked the presenters.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:04:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON expressed his concern  about the language on page                                                               
99  of CSSB  46(FIN).   He  referred  to page  99,  line 18,  and                                                               
questioned  whether  a  set  50   percent  for  all  projects  is                                                               
appropriate.   There  projects are  diverse and  it may  not make                                                               
sense  to have  a "hard  and fast"  percentage.   He suggested  a                                                               
criteria-based  approach  be  used  instead.   He  suggested  the                                                               
committee pass these  concerns on to the  House Finance committee                                                               
for use during its deliberations.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT agreed that concerns should be passed along.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:08:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  noted  the  effect of  lower  rates  of                                                               
utility  rates to  commerce  in  rural areas.    He related  that                                                               
lowering the  costs to a grocery  store in rural Alaska  could be                                                               
passed  on to  customers so  milk  does not  cost $8  to $10  per                                                               
gallon.   He noted some  of the projects  will lower the  cost to                                                               
consumers,  but   also  to  small   businesses  in   the  region.                                                               
Additionally, income could be "freed  up" for other projects.  He                                                               
said  he  believes  that the  legislature  can  improve  people's                                                               
lifestyles  and lower  the  cost of  living  by keeping  electric                                                               
costs as  low as  possible.   He thought  many of  these projects                                                               
could help us reach that goal.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:10:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT   asked  whether  participants   have  addressed                                                               
projects in a previous committee setting.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE answered no.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:11:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  related that the projects  were presented                                                               
as implementing the  state's energy policy.  He  read the policy.                                                               
He thought that  other questions could be asked  to determine how                                                               
these   projects  fit   into  the   policy  and   address  energy                                                               
efficiency,  support  economic   development,  have  elements  of                                                               
energy  research,  and  include   government  coordination.    He                                                               
concluded  the importance  of being  able to  quantify how  these                                                               
projects fulfill the energy policy.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK  noted school districts are  paying very high                                                               
utility bills due to fuel costs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:12:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  recalled  grants  available  including  the                                                               
Southeast grant  funds and if approved,  will require regulation.                                                               
He offered  his belief  that many  of the  projects will  need to                                                               
apply for  grants.   He inquired  as to the  process AEA  uses to                                                               
distribute grant funds.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. FISHER-GOAD  responded that only  projects in this  list that                                                               
require  regulation process  would be  the Southeast  Energy fund                                                               
since it  would be $10 million  to the fund  for the AEA to  do a                                                               
specific purpose to issue grants  to statutory eligible grantees.                                                               
The  other projects  fall under  typical capital  budget projects                                                               
where individual projects would be managed  by AEA.  The scope of                                                               
the  project is  identified in  the backup.   The  capital budget                                                               
provides  the AEA  the information  on how  to fund  the project.                                                               
The AEA would work with the  grantees and project owners to honor                                                               
match requirements.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:15:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  related his understanding that  there is not                                                               
a  process.   He related  a scenario,  such as  the community  of                                                               
Akiak, who would  not have a prescribed process  to receive funds                                                               
once approved.   He  inquired as to  whether the  community would                                                               
receive funds  from AEA or  if the  community would need  to meet                                                               
the criteria to receive the full amount.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. FISHER-GOAD  answered that Akiak  project is unique  since it                                                               
is  a  Rural Power  System  Upgrade  (RPSU)  project.   The  RPSU                                                               
projects underwent  a ranking criterion  process the AEA  and the                                                               
Denali Commission several years ago.   She affirmed that Akiak is                                                               
at the  top of that  list.  She said  that if Akiak  receives its                                                               
funding from  an individual  line item in  a capital  budget, the                                                               
AEA can use  the $10 million designated for the  RPSU project for                                                               
other projects.   She anticipated the two projects  that could be                                                               
funded are Fort Yukon or Atmautluak.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  said  he  understood.   He  stated  he  had                                                               
randomly selected Akiak.   He then turned to  Anchorage to Quartz                                                               
Creek  Transmission Maintenance  and Repair  project, noting  the                                                               
$25 million.  He related  his understanding the $25 million would                                                               
not be  directly given  to the  Municipality of  Anchorage (MOA).                                                               
He  inquired  as  to  whether  there  are  internal  controls  to                                                               
identify when  and how  the funding is  delivered.   He clarified                                                               
that his interest is focused on the AEA's procedures.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FISHER-GOAD answered  that  the AEA  executes several  grant                                                               
agreements  which   would  typically  consist  of   40  pages  of                                                               
requirements,  including  those  that identify  allowable  costs.                                                               
She recalled the language outlines  requirements that are similar                                                               
to those of the Renewable Energy  Fund requirements.  The AEA may                                                               
suggest a  milestone process for  the grantee.  She  related that                                                               
the AEA's project  managers have a familiarity  with the grantees                                                               
and  have  "boilerplate" grant  requirements.    She provided  an                                                               
example of prohibited grant fund  uses such that a grantee cannot                                                               
use funds for lobbying the  legislature.  She illustrated the $25                                                               
million Anchorage  to Quartz  Creek Transmission  Maintenance and                                                               
Repair  grant is  a  grant to  the  Chugach Electric  Association                                                               
(CEA) for  the project.   The grant agreement would  identify the                                                               
scope  of work  and would  identify any  prohibited expenditures.                                                               
The  primary  purpose  of  the  funds would  be  to  perform  the                                                               
identified  project   and  AEA  would  verify   expenditures  via                                                               
invoices to ensure the grantee  follows the legislature's intent.                                                               
She reiterated  that the  AEA would go  administer the  grant for                                                               
appropriateness of expenditures.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:19:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK   offered  he   had  been   considering  the                                                               
Southeast Integrated  Railbelt Plan.   He inquired as  to whether                                                               
it would be better to lump  the funding for grants rather than to                                                               
list each one separately.   He related his understanding that the                                                               
40-page  grant   application  process  provides   a  standardized                                                               
process  but some  projects  could be  fine-tuned  to ensure  the                                                               
state's interests are represented.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.   FISHER-GOAD  affirmed   that   AEA   takes  its   fiduciary                                                               
responsibilities very seriously with respect  to grantees and the                                                               
grant agreement  creates a  contractual relationship  between the                                                               
AEA  and the  grantee.   She indicated  the AEA  would place  any                                                               
necessary  stipulations  on  a  specific  project.    In  further                                                               
response  to  Representative  Tuck,  she related  the  AEA  would                                                               
reallocate  money through  the legislature  in the  event that  a                                                               
grant  was  terminated,  similar   to  how  the  AEA  administers                                                               
Renewable Energy Grants.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:21:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK inquired  as to whether the  AEA supports the                                                               
Teeland to Healy Substation Improvements and Repair project.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. FISHER-GOAD  related her  understanding the  specific repairs                                                               
are for the  AEA Intertie.  She offered to  confirm this with Mr.                                                               
Griffith.  She reviewed the  history of the project relating that                                                               
in  2003 $20.3  million was  appropriated to  AEA to  upgrade the                                                               
intertie and  create a Teeland  bypass.  The  project experienced                                                               
issues but continues  to be active with the AEA  and the Intertie                                                               
Operating  Committee.   In 2008,  the legislature  reappropriated                                                               
$10 million  for the intertie  repairs but the  necessary project                                                               
costs increased to $15 million.   She offered her support for the                                                               
state to maintain  state-owned assets.  She  opined these repairs                                                               
need  to be  done,  noting that  it would  be  difficult for  the                                                               
utilities to  manage the 50 percent  matching funds, particularly                                                               
due to the  intertie agreement.  She also  recognized the state's                                                               
opportunity  given  the  newly   created  ARCTEC  to  review  and                                                               
accomplish repair  projects the legislature  funds as well  as to                                                               
consider  the  overall  integrity of  the  Railbelt  transmission                                                               
system.   She advised that  the AEA has historically  allowed the                                                               
utilities  take the  lead on  repairs  which is  one reason  this                                                               
capital  request  was not  made  through  the  AEA budget.    She                                                               
offered to work  with the utilities to determine  whether the AEA                                                               
should take a  more active role or to work  on a partnership with                                                               
the utilities.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:26:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  understood that  AEA was very  familiar with                                                               
capital projects.  He inquired as  to whether the AEA maintains a                                                               
list  of  priorities that  were  previously  funded and  how  the                                                               
projects are ranked.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FISHER-GOAD  asked  for  clarification  on  which  projects,                                                               
whether he  referred to the  state-owned AEA assets  or statewide                                                               
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  answered that his  interest is in  all state                                                               
projects with AEA involvement.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. FISHER-GOAD offered to more  fully discuss the matter outside                                                               
the  meeting since  she was  uncertain she  fully understood  his                                                               
question.    She related  that  generally,  except for  Renewable                                                               
Energy  Fund, the  AEA does  not typically  advocate for  utility                                                               
projects in  the capital budget,  except for the  Susitna project                                                               
which  would be  AEA-owned.    She reiterated  that  she did  not                                                               
believe  that  AEA advocated  for  a  project in  the  Governor's                                                               
budget that the  AEA was not directly involved in.   She recalled                                                               
earlier testimony  before the  committee that  the RPSU  and Bulk                                                               
Fuel projects  represent long  standing programs  by the  AEA and                                                               
the Denali Commission to address deficiencies.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:29:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  offered to  meet with the  AEA.   He pointed                                                               
out  one reason  for  the special  session has  been  due to  the                                                               
gridlock over  energy projects.   He  indicated the  relevance of                                                               
knowing which projects the governor  supports or does not support                                                               
since that may help identify  which energy projects have a chance                                                               
of successfully completing  the funding process.   In response to                                                               
Co-Chair Pruitt, he answered that he  did not advocate all of the                                                               
energy projects  be funded.  He  related that it would  depend on                                                               
the total  amount the  legislature would like  to authorize.   He                                                               
clarified that he  does not serve on the  House Finance Committee                                                               
and  would not  make  the final  decisions.   He  inquired as  to                                                               
whether the joint committee could  present recommendations to the                                                               
House   Finance  Committee,   similar  to   the  finance   budget                                                               
subcommittees.  He said he  prefers to have capital projects move                                                               
to the  committee level  and then back  to the  finance committee                                                               
process as  a backwards process although  he appreciated learning                                                               
about  the  energy  projects and  commissioner's  testimony  with                                                               
respect to the  process.  He expressed interest in  being part of                                                               
the  vetting  process  to get  these  important  energy  projects                                                               
approved.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:31:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT  agreed  that   information  gleaned  should  be                                                               
shared.   He inquired as to  whether the committee would  like to                                                               
make recommendations  to the  finance committee,  suggesting that                                                               
relevant questions  such as  the 50  percent provision  should be                                                               
made.   He highlighted  that one  reason for  the meeting  was to                                                               
determine whether members  would like to see  these projects move                                                               
forward  or  be  tied  together.     He  noted  input  from  both                                                               
committees could be valuable to  the finance committee during its                                                               
deliberations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:33:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON  suggested  the  legislature  consider                                                               
making regulatory changes  with the RCA.   She expressed interest                                                               
in the  state managing its  expenditures much  in the same  way a                                                               
household  would.     She  further  expressed   interest  in  the                                                               
legislature  providing the  utilities  the  statutory ability  to                                                               
plan and  collect maintenance funds  from ratepayers.   She hoped                                                               
the legislature  would consider the  best approach  to accomplish                                                               
this next  year.   She recalled the  ten questions  the committee                                                               
asked  capital  requestors  today.     She  recalled  the  Denali                                                               
Commission  and  Mental  Health   Trust  developed  criteria  for                                                               
funding proposals to ensure sustainability  of its projects.  She                                                               
suggested  that  the  legislature  consider  similar  methods  to                                                               
determine sustainability of projects it funds.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:36:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  expressed   concern  with  the  coal-to-liquids                                                               
projects  with  respect to  resource  perspective.   He  recalled                                                               
testimony that  the project is  not yet commercially viable.   He                                                               
questioned whether  the state should proceed.   He said he  was a                                                               
conflicted since  the process of  gas or coal-to-liquids  is very                                                               
important to  the state.   He recalled detailed  testimony before                                                               
the  Resources Committee  on the  gas  to methanol  process.   He                                                               
reiterated  his concern  that the  coal-to-liquids  has not  been                                                               
sufficiently   vetted   whereas   the  methanol   project   could                                                               
potentially  be viable  and has  elements that  make the  project                                                               
attractive in cold climates.  He  said he hoped the House Finance                                                               
Committee would obtain more information.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:41:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  concluded that  the high  cost of  energy is                                                               
question  of  survival  for  rural   residents  given  the  rural                                                               
residents' salaries.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK   noted  the  committee   reviewed  numerous                                                               
projects.  He  raised concern that some  good projects considered                                                               
by  the other  body were  not  forwarded for  consideration.   He                                                               
offered his  belief that  all the  projects should  be considered                                                               
since some projects may potentially  be as viable as the projects                                                               
reviewed by the joint committees.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT  agreed.   He  concluded  by asking  members  to                                                               
inform him of  any support or concern with  respect to individual                                                               
projects.  He  indicated his desire to provide  the House Finance                                                               
Committee with collective comments on the energy projects.                                                                      

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
01 - SB 46 Version T, Section 4 energy projects.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Energy Projects Review
02 - Energy projects in CSSB 46 Version T, Section 4, page 98, line 1, through page 101, line 27, Updated 5 May 2011, 13h18.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Energy Projects Review
04 - House Energy Committee Schedule, 6 and 7 May, 2011.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Energy Projects Review
03 - Alaska Statute 44.99.115. Declaration of state energy policy.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Energy Projects Review
05 - House Energy -- Press Release, 4 May 2011.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Energy Projects Review
02a - Copper Valley Electric Association Allison Creek Hydroelectric Project.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
CVEA - Energy Projects Review
03a - Gustavus Electric Company Falls Creek Hydroelectric Debt Reimbursement.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Gustavus - Energy Projects Review
02b - Copper Valley Electric Association Allison Creek Hydroelectric Project Brochure.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
CVEA - Energy Projects Review
04a Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project - Resolution executed by the Advisory Group - IRP_Executed Resolution 2011 01.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review
04b Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project - City of Ketchikan Resolution.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review
04c Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project City - Ketchikan Gateway Borough Resolution.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review
04d Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project City - Ketchikan Gateway Borough Resolution.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review
04e Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project - OceansAlaska Resolution.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review
05 - Kodiak Electric Association Terror Lake Hydroelectric Facility Expansion.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Kodiak - Energy Projects Review
06 - Metlakatla-Ketchikan Intertie - Southeast Conference and Advisory Work Group Resolution.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Metlakatla - Energy Projects Review
07 - Sitka Blue Lake Hydroelectric Project Expansion.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Sitka - Energy Projects Review
04f Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project Summary.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review
03b - Gustavus Electric Company Falls Creek Hydroelectric Debt Reimbursement Synopsis.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Gustavus - Energy Projects Review
01 - Nuvista Light & Power Chikuminuk Hydroelectric & Alternative Energy Project.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Nuvista - Energy Projects Review
04g Ketchikan Whitman Lake Hydroelectric Project - Mike Kline Testimony.pdf HENE 5/7/2011 10:00:00 AM
Ketchikan Whitman Lake - Energy Projects Review